[b-hebrew] be-ne vs. ve-ne

fred burlingame tensorpath at gmail.com
Mon Dec 27 22:09:32 EST 2010


Hello Ari:

Thanks for your clear explanation of the rules applying to vocalization of
this word בני.

I would appreciate if you could answer one follow up question. In your
experience, and if you know, can the average person who is fluent in the
biblical hebrew language tanakh today ... be handed a page from the
text, without any vowel or cantillation marks, and yet know exactly when to
say "be-ne" or "ve-ne."

I could see the person fluent in the language internalizing rules 1-3
without the need for punctuation or pronunciation marks. But perhaps rule
no. 4 might be a reach.

I am trying to acquire a sense of whether the pronunciation marks reflect
how the language would have been spoken in the home and outside of a
formal synagogue or temple setting.

regards,

fred burlingame

2010/12/27 AMK Judaica <amkjudaica at hotmail.com>

>
> FRED:
>
> 1) if the previous word ends in a closed syllable, then an initial beged
> kefet letter on the following word is plosive with a dagesh kal, i.e., bene
> 2) if the previous word ends in an open syllable and is accented with a
> disjunctive cantillation, then the following word retains the dagesh kal,
> i.e., bene
> 3) if the previous word ends in an open syllable and is accented with a
> conjunctive cantillation, then an initial beged kefet letter on the
> following word become fricative (lacks dagesh kal), i.e., vene
> 4) there are exceptions to no. 3 known as dehik and ati marhik, but these
> are more complicated
>
> best wishes,
> ari kinsberg
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:56:41 -0600
> > From: tensorpath at gmail.com
> > To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: [b-hebrew] be-ne vs. ve-ne
> >
> > These geographically nearby excerpts (phrases) of the masoretic text seem
> to
> > alternate pronunciation back and forth of the same word as vocalized in
> the
> > subject line.
> >
> > Can anyone identify which word requires "ve-ne" vocalization; and which
> word
> > instructs "be-ne" vocalization without reference to the pointed text?
> >
> > 1. למשפחת בני גלעד
> >
> > 2. ממשפחת בני יוסף
> >
> > 3. שבטי בני ישראל
> >
> > 4. את בני ישראל
> >
> > 5. מטה בני יוסף
> >
> > Does the last letter in the word preceding בני dictate its pronunciation;
> > depending on that letter's status as consonant or vowel?
> >
> > Your comments are appreciated.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > fred burlingame
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>
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