[b-hebrew] pere's question on he/she/him/her

Pere Porta pporta7 at gmail.com
Sat Dec 18 00:44:21 EST 2010


Nir,
thank you for your kind explanation.
But I'd prefer a more direct and precise answer.
My question is really not on the Hebrew but on the English as this is
intended to, so to say, literally translate the Hebrew:

---In Gn 37:4 we have DABRWO, to speak him/it. No problem with the English
because the suffix -WO plays the part of the object and not of the subject.

---But in Ex 34:29 we have B'DABRWO. Putting aside preposition B, we have
the same word.

Now, at literally translating it to the English, which is the right form:

1. (in) the fact/act of HE to speak
2. (in) the fact/act of HIM to speak?

Remark: here in Ex 34:29 the suffix WO plays the part of the subject (and
not the part of the object as it was the case in Gn 37:4).

This is my question.
Remark that I'm asking on the English rather than on the Hebrew (I'm not a
native english-speaking person...)

Pere Porta
(Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
2010/12/17 Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. <nir at ccet.ufrn.br>

> pere,
>
> SHEM HAPOAL is a noun which indicates both root and binyan. when used in
> SMIXUT with a suffix, it always indicates NOSE HAPOAL, not NESU
> HAPOAL. (in your words, "he" and not "him"). however, whether it
> would be active or passive depends on the binyan. compare LIDTAH and
> HIVALDAH (give birth vs. be born). also, gender (m/f), guf (1/2/3)
> and number (s/p) should agree with the NOSE HAPOAL.
>
> as to NESU HAPOAL, it cannot enter as a suffix, and has to appear in
> separate:
> LIDTA OTO, LEDET OTO. this is not so in non-noun verb forms, eg HA'ALUHU,
> HE'ELUHU, YA'ALUHU, where we have two suffixes.
>
> the present tense behaves like a noun rather than a verb. for example, it
> does
> not agree with guf, only with gender and number. so it also does not
> admit a NESU HAPOAL. YOLEDET OTO.
>
> YOLADETO seems a counter example, but as YOLEDET here does not describe
> an action but a person, we do not have POAL, hence NOSE/NESU HAPOAL, to
> begin
> with, and so there is no problem.
>
> nir cohen
>
> >Hi, list.
> >When trying to literally translate infinitives with personal suffix (the
> >suffix playing the part of the subject of the infinitive) such as:
>
> >1. (A&OTO -------- Jr 30:24
> >2. (ALOTO -------- Is 11:16
> >3. LIDTAH ---------- Gn 38:27
> >4. RIDTAH --------- Dt 20:20
> >and so on...
>
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>



-- 
Pere Porta



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