[b-hebrew] one-to-one rendering of olam (was: Song of Songs 1:12)

fred burlingame tensorpath at gmail.com
Thu Dec 9 19:44:16 EST 2010


I am a believer in the statement of one deceased rabbi samson hirsch, to
wit:

"Our sacred literature does not use obscure language, but describes most
things in words clearly indicating their meaning. Therefore it is necessary
at all times to delve into the literal meaning of words in order to achieve
complete understanding of what is actually meant." see, page ix of the link.

http://books.google.com/books?id=eVAAfn6Itb4C&pg=PR15&lpg=PR15&dq=literal+meaning+samson+hirsch&source=bl&ots=jyJTGvlq6q&sig=wgkkJyBEOzdnAU-AuQzsfVHWgu4&hl=en&ei=-Sn5TMBzhryVB6nHreEH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=literal%20meaning%20samson%20hirsch&f=false


Applying the rabbi's rule to the phrase at hand: i read it to mean: "until
concealed" or "until hidden," no more .. and no less ....

It simply means an unknown period of time.

The phrase expressly intends disclosure not of the time period. It could be
three days like jonah in the whale; or 500 years like the first temple, or
some other shorter or longer period of time.

Boosting the meaning into "eternity" profoundly changes the entire masoretic
text in my humble opinion.

regards,

fred burlingame


On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Paul Zellmer <pzellmer at sc.rr.com> wrote:

>  English has the concept of an endless “forever.”  Hebrew does not.  As
> Gary reminded us, the actual concept of  עולם is a very long time.  But
> the normal English translation of  עד עולם is “forever,” unless context
> prevents such an open-ended statement.
>
>
>
> When I was involved in translation work, I happened to work in a language
> that, like Hebrew, did not have the “forever” concept.  But their equivalent
> preposition phrase, “adde noka,” was well understood by people to normally
> refer to an endless time unless otherwise prevented.
>
>
>
> Just out of curiosity, what would you suggest as a more “correct” meaning?
>
>
>
> Paul Zellmer
>
>
>
> *From:* fred burlingame [mailto:tensorpath at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 09, 2010 4:43 PM
> *To:* Paul Zellmer
> *Cc:* B-Hebrew
> *Subject:* Re: [b-hebrew] Song of Songs 1:12
>
>
>
>
> Hello Paul:
>
>
>
> Thanks for your nice and explanatory comments.
>
>
>
> The question remains however. The niv committee, in its wisdom, instructs
> that the little phrase עד עולם means "forever."
>
>
>
> http://www.biblestudytools.com/1-chronicles/23-13.html
>
>
>
> http://www.biblegateway.com/niv/translators-notes/
>
>
>
> Is that meaning of the hebrew phrase correct?...
>
>
>
> I await your advices.
>
>
>
> regards,
>
>
>
> fred burlingame
>
>
>
>



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