[b-hebrew] Pr. 1:6; riddles

Gerry Folbre gfolbreiii at gmail.com
Sat Oct 10 12:36:12 EDT 2009


Karl:
I understand that terms can be defined differently based on different
understandings and different word views.  If anything that would be the
catalyst for a spirited discussion.  So what is your take on Pr. 1:6?

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:57 AM, K Randolph <kwrandolph at gmail.com> wrote:

> Gerry:
> The “first year lies” extends also to dictionary meanings you find. Even
> there different people suss different understandings, based on their
> different outlooks on the terms.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Gerry Folbre <gfolbreiii at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > To all or any:
> >
> > Proverbs 1:6 has always fascinated me.  I will do an interlinear
> rendition
> > of Pr. 1:6 and then give my personal translation.  I hope there will be
> > some
> > corrections, insights, and new information shared by those who enter the
> > examination and discussion.
> >
> > Pr 1:6 להבין משׂל ומליצה  דברי חכמים וחידתם׃
> >
> > להבין = to comprehend  משׂל = a proverb/parable/poem/figurative discourse
> > ומליצה = and a satire/enigma/figure/metaphor דברי = [the] words חכמים =
> [of
> > the] wise וחידתם = and {Vaw adaequationis} = go together with their
> > riddles.
> >
> > Pr. 1:6 To comprehend a figurative discourse and a metaphor; the words of
> > the wise go together with their riddles.
> >
> >
> > My take on this verse is “to cause to have insight into rules and
> announcements, the expressions of the wise and their didactic questions.”
>
> Remember, this is a book intended to teach, hence the verb here is
> causative. It’s meaning is “to have insight, to understand in the sense of
> getting between the surface appearances underneath to the essential nature
> of what is known”.
>
> משׂל ≠ a proverb/parable/poem/figurative discourse, that is a modern,
> western concept. When we look at its uses in Tanakh, it refers to a rule,
> regulation where people believed that life was orderly, with absolute rules
> that can be learned.
>
> ומליצה ≠ and a satire/enigma/figure/metaphor, rather it is the statement of
> a מליץ a spokesperson, usually for another but who can also be a
> spokesperson for God. This is also from the root meaning of being
> outspoken,
> used both for a spokesperson, e.g. Genesis 42:23, though other words
> indicate a babbling fool, Proverbs 17:28.
>
> דבר = expression, not only in words, but also in body motions, such as
> pointing and even objects made to give a message.
>
> חידה = “didactic question, a riddle that has an implied message or
> statement
> that one has to think about in order to get the message, e.g. Judges 14,
> Samson killed the lion with his bare hands, therefore his message was,
> “Don’t mess with me!” The Philistines got it, imperfectly, as their
> subsequent actions showed. 1 Kings 10:1 the Queen of Sheba tested Solomon
> with didactic questions, apparently to hammer out trade issues.” Hence
> these
> are not riddles in the modern sense, rather questions intended to impart a
> message, like those found in a catechism.
>
> >
> >
> > Gerry Folbre
> >
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
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