[b-hebrew] Piel or "stative usage of verb"

Gerry Folbre gfolbreiii at gmail.com
Fri Oct 9 15:52:48 EDT 2009


Dave:  Thanks for the clarification.  I too like the "first-year lies"
catchphrase.  The "sussing" process is what I am most interested in.  I have
a great many ideas I would like to share, discuss, and argue about, but I
have very little that I can say, " I actually know."  I look forward to
hearing some of your ideas.  I have a feeling that you may have a great deal
of B-Hebrew information to share.  I look forward to the discussions and
arguments that will follow.
All the best,
Gerry Folbre

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:59 PM, <dwashbur at nyx.net> wrote:

> It refers to the absolutistic approach to the forms that one usually finds
> in the first-year
> grammars and classes: the qal means this, the pi`el means that, the
> wayyiqtol means this,
> the qatal means that.  It's only later on that the average Hebrew student
> learns the truth: we
> frankly don't know what most of those forms mean, we're still in the
> process of sussing it all
> out, but those first-year lies give us a basis for learning what the forms
> look like, nothing
> more.  "Early-learning oversimplifications" is probably a more precise term
> for it, but "first-
> year lies" is not only easier to say, but more fun.
>
> On 8 Oct 2009 at 19:08, Gerry Folbre wrote:
>
> > Dave:
> > I am not familiar with the phrase, "first-year lies".  What does it
> > mean or
> > apply to.
> > Gerry Folbre
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 7:00 PM, <dwashbur at nyx.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8 Oct 2009 at 18:25, Gerry Folbre wrote:
> > >
> > > > Randall wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "This appears to unintentionally promote an etymological
> > fallacy
> > > > about
> > > > pi``el.
> > > >
> > > > the distinguishing mark of a "pi``el" verb in a Semitic language
> > is
> > > > not its
> > > > semantic context but its phonetic shape. It is the
> > vowel-consonant
> > > > pattern
> > > > the marks the word, and if the writing system doesn't show
> > that,
> > > > -- well, that's too bad."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > According to Robert K. Logan, "The first proto-alphabetic
> > scripts
> > > > ... had no
> > > > provisions for vowels or vocalization.  Reading a script
> > correctly
> > > > was a
> > > > matter of good guesswork guided by context" (The Alphabet
> > Effect,
> > > > pg. 38)
> > > >
> > > > Paleo Hebrew and New Aramaic Hebrew were both written without
> > vowels
> > > > and
> > > > vocalization points prior to the Masoretic Texts {sixth to the
> > > > ninth
> > > > centuries AD).  When the vowel points and vocalization marks
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > Masoretic Hebrew Tanakh are removed, the reading text, Qare´,
> > > > ceases to
> > > > exist, leaving us only the ancient Kethib {consonantal} text.
> > > > Therefore,
> > > > reading the Hebrew Kethib {consonantal} text correctly would be
> > a
> > > > matter of
> > > > "good guesswork guided by context."
> > > >
> > > > Do you not agree?
> > >
> > > Are you familiar with the phrase "first-year lies"?
> > >
> > > Dave Washburn
> > >
> > > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur <http://www.nyx.net/%7Edwashbur> <
> http://www.nyx.net/%7Edwashbur>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > b-hebrew mailing list
> > > b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
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> > >
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> >
>
>
> Dave Washburn
>
> http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur <http://www.nyx.net/%7Edwashbur>
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