[b-hebrew] Exo 12:40 430 years

Steve Miller smille10 at sbcglobal.net
Sun Jul 5 15:31:31 EDT 2009


Thanks Bryant.

I don't know how to reconcile the 2 either. The Jewish understanding is that
the time in Egypt was only 210 years since ancient times, and this was
apparently Paul's understanding in Galatians as well. 
I am trying to find any Biblical support for the asher phrase in Exo 12:40
to mean 'who then dwelt in Egypt', but I haven't found any clear one. 
I'm also looking for support for the term "children of Israel" to include
the lives of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 

Sincerely,
-Steve Miller
www.voiceInWilderness.info
Detroit
But when One stronger than Satan comes upon him and overcomes him, He takes
away his whole armor in which he had trusted and distributes his spoil.
(Luke 11:22)

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryant J. Williams III [mailto:bjwvmw at com-pair.net]
> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:48 AM
> To: steve at voiceInWilderness.info; 'B-Hebrew'
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Exo 12:40 430 years
> 
> Dear Steve,
> 
> Thanks for the corrections.
> 
> I think that since almost all of the Patriarchs including the twelve sons
> of
> Israel (Jacob) lived into the ca. 110 - 150 yrs of age and that the
> fathering
> and birthing of children was most likely well into advanced age, then it
> is
> conceivable (pun intended) that the Israelites were not that far removed
> from
> the memories and histories of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Other than that
> the text
> is corrupt, which I think is highly unlikely, then I do not know.
> 
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Miller" <smille10 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Bryant J. Williams III'" <bjwvmw at com-pair.net>; "'B-Hebrew'"
> <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 7:57 PM
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Exo 12:40 430 years
> 
> 
> > > From: Bryant J. Williams III [mailto:bjwvmw at com-pair.net]
> > >
> > > Dear Steve,
> > >
> > > It is a good question you ask, but I do not know the answer. The text
> does
> > > not
> > > give the age of Levi when he entered Egypt, Jockeyed, the age of
> Jockeyed
> > > at the
> > > birthing of Aaron, Miriam and Moses, etc. We do know that Jacob died
> at
> > > 147 yrs
> > > of age. Joseph was 17 when sold into slavery into Egypt by his
> brothers.
> > > The
> > > question would be, "How old was Levi and the other brothers at this
> time?"
> > > I
> > > think that they were in their 20's, maybe 30's.
> >
> > [Steve Miller] Levi would be older than that. Joseph was 30 when he
> stood
> > before Pharoah (Gen 41:46). There were still at least the 7 years of
> plenty
> > + 2 years of famine to go before Jacob moved to Egypt, So Joseph was at
> > least 39. Levi had to be at least 5 years older than Joseph (1 yr for
> Judah
> > + 1 year for when Leah left off bearing + 1 yr for Issachar + 1 yr for
> > Zebulun + 1 year for Dinah.) So Levi was at least 44 when Jacob moved to
> > Egypt.
> >
> > > Add about 70-80 years to
> > > when
> > > they would be in Egypt, then somewhere along that line of time
> Jockeyed is
> > > born
> > > in Egypt. The above is just speculation, The question then is, Does
> BAT
> > > have the
> > > meaning of "daughter," "granddaughter" or "great-granddaughter" in
> this
> > > context?
> > > I am more inclined with "great-granddaughter, but that is more of an
> > > educated
> > > guess than anything else.
> >
> > [Steve Miller] It says "she bare her [Jochebed] to Levi in Egypt". I
> think
> > this says unambiguously that Jochebed is Levi's direct daughter, not
> > granddaughter. The phrase '<woman> bare to <man>' is used for an
> immediate
> > son or daughter in all the other places that it is used that I could
> find
> > (Genesis 21:3; 36:4, 12, 14).
> > It would make no sense to say "whom she bare to Levi in Egypt" about
> Levi's
> > later descendant born after Levi had died. Levi's other direct children
> were
> > born before he came to Egypt, so it is noteworthy to say Jochebed was
> born
> > in Egypt. But Levi's later descendants were pretty much all born in
> Egypt.
> >
> > The geneology of Levi -> Kohath -> Amram -> Moses is mentioned a number
> of
> > times. It also says that Amram married his father's sister (Exo 6:20).
> >
> > >
> > > From what I gather from the context of the passage in Numbers is that
> this
> > > is
> > > the Second Census/Numbering of the Children of Israel. The entire list
> > > gives
> > > tribes and families, but does not break further down. It appears that
> the
> > > since
> > > the tribe of Levi, not having an inheritance of land, is singled out
> as
> > > Levi,
> > > original head of the tribe; Amram and Jockeyed, then Moses, Aaron and
> > > Miriam.
> > > Finally, the descendents of Aaron as High Priest.
> > >
> > > Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Miller" <smille10 at sbcglobal.net>
> > > To: "'Bryant J. Williams III'" <bjwvmw at com-pair.net>;
> > > <steve at voiceInWilderness.info>; "'K Randolph'" <kwrandolph at gmail.com>;
> > > "'B-Hebrew'" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 10:18 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Exo 12:40 430 years
> > >
> > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Bryant J. Williams III
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Steve,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Twice is the emphasis placed on 430 years. This would have to mean
> > > from
> > > > > the time
> > > > > of "Israel (Jacob) entered Egypt to the time of departure. Verse
> 41 is
> > > > > quite
> > > > > emphatic about it "to the very day."
> > > > >
> > > > > Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
> > > > >
> > > > [Steve Miller] Bryant, Then how do you deal with
> > > >
> > > > Numbers 26:59  And the name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the
> daughter
> > > of
> > > > Levi, whom her mother bare to Levi in Egypt: and she bare unto Amram
> > > Aaron
> > > > and Moses, and Miriam their sister.
> > > >
> > > > Since Moses' mother was Levi's direct daughter, even taking that
> > > Jochebed
> > > > was born the year Levi died, and that Jochebed was 90 when she gave
> > > birth to
> > > > Moses, you can't get anywhere near 430 years.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > -Steve Miller
> > > > Detroit
> > > >
> >
> >
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