[b-hebrew] Ecclesiastes 7:7

K Randolph kwrandolph at gmail.com
Mon Dec 17 12:52:05 EST 2007


Dear Ron:

On Dec 14, 2007 2:13 PM, Ron Snider <sarasotapt at comcast.net> wrote:

> Well, let me say that "Did you read my question?"


Yes, I read your question, and my answer indicated my puzzlement at your
question. I then gave the reason for my puzzlement. Your question was
"... wonder
on how many occasions any of you are familiar with a masculine noun being
used with a feminine subject." and I don't see how it fits the context of
this verse.


> .... The translation is
> irrelevant to my question, and BTW, your translation is quite unique.
> In fact, it deviates from every commentary, every lexicon, and every
> English version I have seen.


Maybe because I have read it only once in English, and that was many years
ago. Every other time I have read it is in Hebrew.

>
> However, that being said, in response to your post,
>
> >"For the defrauder makes a fool of the wise and makes the heart lost from
>
> >narrating (so that it does not narrate)"
> >
> >($Q to defraud, used in participle, defrauder (in context, the defrauder
> is
> >
> Actually, it is a masculine noun with the definite article.  It most
> likely looks at one attempting to extort the wise man.
>
> >probably death)
> >
> hardly likely
>

Why?

The presence of another word as a verb in the sentence indicates that this
word is treated as a noun, which is what I said above. It either refers to
the one who is doing the action of defrauding, or the object taken through
fraud. From the context, my first reaction is that it refers to the one
defrauding. From the context I take the defrauder as death.

What is your answer?

>
> >
> >YHWLL pilel of HWL to make a fool of.
> >
> Correct
>
> >
> >XKM wise
> >
> Correct
>
> >
> >)BD to become lost, often used as a euphemism for to die, perish.
> >
> True, but in this context, Solomon is setting forth the limitations of
> wisdom in spite of advancing its value in the previous two verses.
>
> How do you figure? The subject of the verse is either a defrauder or the
object taken by fraud, not wisdom. From the parallelism, I take it as the
subject of both verbs. In fact, wisdom is not mentioned in the preceding
verses and as far as I can tell, this is the final verse of the section.
"Wise" used as a noun, referring to persons is mentioned, but not wisdom
directly.


> >
> >LB heart.
> >
> Heart is used in a number of ways...here I take it as the norms and
> standards, the conscience is corrupted in one that takes a bribe.
>
> >
> >MTNH prefixed M, TNH to narrate.
> >
> Every lexicon I consulted has this as a femine singular noun that means
> gift.  In this case a gift or bribe given to influence someone (likely a
> judge or another authority)


First, my first answer is wrong, on second thought. If the mem were a
prefix, the resulting form should have been MTNWT.

Taken out of context, the form could be the noun "gift" as you mention, or
masc. participle of TNH.

In context, it is connected with LB, in which we need to look at context to
decide which best fits the theme. Either it is the heart of a gift, or a
narrating heart. From the context, I think the latter makes more sense, as
previous verses mention the scolding of the wise in contrast to the laughter
of fools.


> I did find an answer in Williams, Hebrew Syntax and Outline on page 41,
> section 228.
>
> Can you enlighten us what he said?


> Thanks anyway.
>
> Ron Snider,


In closing I am still puzzled at your question that this is an example of a
masculine noun being used for a feminine subject. Can you elucidate?

Karl W. Randolph.



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