[b-hebrew] actual Hebrew question about Daniel 9:25

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Thu Sep 14 22:12:15 EDT 2006

Dear Karl,

1.    Artaxerxes II should be the King of Persia not the IV - I fat fingered
it (my typo).

2.    According to Nehemiah 8:1, Ezra was with Nehemiah, this would place
the date, at least 446-445 BCE.

3.    If one looks at the completion of the 2nd Temple in March, 515 BCE
(6th year of Darius - Ezra 6:15), then the 2nd Return of Jews to Judah was
58 years after on the first day of the fifth month, 457 BCE. See Ezra 7:9;

4.    Nehemiah was governor of Judah for two terms.
    a.    The first term last 12 years from the 20th to the 32nd year
            of Artaxerxes II, 445 (444) - 433 (432) BCE. See 1:1; 13:6.
    b.    The second term was after he had returned to the Persian
            court in accordance with the agreement of Neh. 2:6.
Evidently he was not happy about returning to the Persian
            court and was granted permission to return to Judah.
Neither time nor circumstances are indicated for the
    c.    The length of the final term is not listed nor when he died,
but we do know that an Elephatine papyrus, ca 407 BCE,             indicates
that Bagoas is governor of Judah.
5.    There were 3 Persian edicts relating to the return of the
Jews to Jerusalem, 538/537 BCE, 458/457 BCE, and                     445/444

6.    The 49 years (seven weeks) most likely refers to the activity
of the rebuilding of Jersualem during the 15th year of the
Persian ruler, Darius Nothus (423-404 BCE), which is 409             BCE.,
who is mentioned by Prideaux, see also Josephus,             Antiq.XI, 5, 8.

7.    Thus, the 62 weeks would finish about 26 AD.

8.    Some NT scholars, Sir Robert Anderson for instance, would
place the terminus a quo at March, 445 BCE to April, 32 AD         (exactly
173,880 days or 483 prophetic years (assuming             360 day year = 42
months = 1260 days).

9.    Most NT scholars go with the solar calendar and have the
26 AD date.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph at gmail.com>
To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] actual Hebrew question about Daniel 9:25

> Dear Rev. Bryant J. Williams III:
> First of all, which king Artaxerxes was the king who sent Ezra to
> Jerusalem? In doing a googlewhack and reading several articles, I came
> up with two possibilities, one which would have brought Ezra to
> Jerusalem at 457 BC, the other at 395 BC.
> Of the two, the earlier one is used most of the time on online
> articles, and that is entirely because of a reading of 69 sevens of
> years to Jesus' death and resurrection. Thus we have a theological
> interpretation driving which is the "correct" date. When I was young
> in a context not influenced by dispensationalism (which I still
> reject) I was taught that Ezra did his reforms around 400 BC.
> There is also some disagreement as to who arrived in Jerusalem first,
> Ezra or Nehemiah?
> Secondly, are those dates accurate? It is amazing how sure those
> numbers look on a page, but how sure are they really? For the most
> part, historians have agreed to use certain dates because, even if
> they are off a few years, up to a decade or more, that is still close
> enough that to argue about them is more trouble than it's worth.
> Especially since the surviving material is too fragmentary to prove
> one date over another. There are many indications that the dates are,
> at the very least, not set in stone.
> It is when the variance gets beyond a couple of decades that the
> arguments still occur: for example, was Raamses II "the Great" the
> pharaoh of the Exodus or the one who sacked Jerusalem after Solomon
> died? That's a difference of more than two centuries, and that
> argument is still going on. (I favor the later date because my reading
> of Exodus leads me to the understanding that the pharaoh of the Exodus
> was Hyksos, not native Egyptian.)
> So now, when I look at Daniel's prophecy, looking at fuzzy dates that
> could be off by as much as a decade or more, where the reading gives
> two shorter spans within the 70 sevens where it could be read either
> as concurrent or consecutive, the text does not say which way to read
> it, the question comes up which period does it refer to?
> One question, who was the annointed leader who came seven sevens after
> the command was given to rebuild Jerusalem? This was not a 49 year
> rebuilding effort for Jerusalem, the book of Nehemiah tells that the
> walls were rebuilt in less than two months and Jerusalem a bustling
> city at the most a few years later, so who was that leader? He was
> important enough to be mentioned in the prophecy, surely you have an
> answer to that.
> Second question, why do you say that a prophecy that specifically is
> about the city and people should, inexplicably, stop four decades
> before the end of the city and people?
> Third, how does the seventieth seven not describe the seven year Jewish
> Karl W. Randolph.
> On 9/12/06, Bryant J. Williams III <bjwvmw at com-pair.net> wrote:
> > Karl and Yonah,
> >
> > I take the time of Ezra to be 457 BCE with Nehemiah 447-446 BCE. The 483
> > years (62 weeks + 7 weeks = 69 weeks) would take one to the time of 27
> > Nehemiah went to Jerusalem after obtaining permission of Artaxerxes IV
> > rebuild the walls of which was accomplished. I do not take the seven
> > of years to run concurrent. The text does not indicate that. The
Mashiach is
> > cut off at the end of the 69th week.
> >
> > Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
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