[b-hebrew] Daniel 9:25

Lisbeth S. Fried lizfried at umich.edu
Tue Sep 5 23:19:44 EDT 2006


Dear All,
First, from the utterance of the word regarding the rebuilding of Jerusalem
to the coming of an anointed prince is 7 weeks, i.e., 49 years. The word is
Jeremiah's, and that was probably uttered at the time of the first
deportation, so let's say it was uttered in 586, so we have 537 for the
coming of an anointed prince. So, that has to be either Cyrus, or Jeshua, or
Zerubbabel. I'm betting it's Jeshua, since he would have been the only one
actually physically anointed. 
Now, 
After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have
nothing, and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city
and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there
shall be war. Desolations are decreed.
If we are counting a real 62 weeks from the previous, a real, 434 years,
then it comes to about 104. The anointed one is the high priest, he shall be
cut off and left with nothing. John Hyrcanus, I suppose. The troops ('am) of
the ruler (nagid)
shall destroy the city. This refers to a foreign ruler, but I have to read
up on what happened then after the death of John Hyrcanus.
But I have always assumed that these aren't reliable numbers, that the
chronology was off, and that the foreign ruler is Antiochus IV, and the
anointed prince who was cut off was Onias III.
Liz Fried

> > From: Lisbeth S. Fried Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:33 PM
> >
> > How does it make clear that it is not the high priest?
> 
> [Steve Miller] Because nageed refers to kings, not priests. The high
priest
> is called nageed only as ruler over specific things, i.e. over certain
> Levites, or over the house of God. He is never called an unqualified
nageed.
> Just as I am ruler over my house and over a few people at work, but I
would
> not be called a ruler.
> 
> > That is who the leader was in the second temple period.
> [Steve Miller] He may have been acting as the leader, as Jehoida did, but
he
> was not anointed to be the leader. If he was high priest, he was anointed
to
> be high priest.
> 
> > How does the time constraint not work?
> [Steve Miller] He needed to appear either 7 weeks (49 years) or 62 weeks
> (434 years) or 69 weeks (483 years) after the word to restore and rebuild
> Jerusalem.
> -Steve Miller
> Detroit
> www.voiceinwilderness.info
> 
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Steve Miller [mailto:smille10 at sbcglobal.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:45 PM
> > > To: 'Lisbeth S. Fried'; 'B-Hebrew'
> > > Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Daniel 9:25
> > >
> > > "maschiach" can refer to a high priest, but "maschiach nageed" makes
it
> > > clear that this is not a Levitical priest. Also, the time constraint
> > does
> > > not work as pointed out by Harold.
> > > -Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> > > > bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lisbeth S. Fried
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:26 PM
> > > > To: 'B-Hebrew'
> > > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Daniel 9:25
> > > >
> > > > Dear All,
> > > > You're forgetting the high priest, always the anointed leader of his
> > > > people.
> > > > (e.g. Lev. 8:12).
> > > > It is probably Onias III or Simon II (the one described in Ben
Sira).
> > > > Simon
> > > > II is credited with restoring Jerusalem. Onias III is cut off and
has
> > > > nothing.
> > > > The troops destroying the sanctuary are those of Antiochus IV.
> > > > Liz Fried
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> > > > > bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Steve Miller
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:15 PM
> > > > > To: 'Yonah Mishael'; 'B-Hebrew'
> > > > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Daniel 11:22
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Yonah Mishael Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Translating נגיד as "prince" has also led to Christians
> > translating
> > > > > > 9:25 of Daniel as "Messiah the Prince," although משיח נגיד would
> > maybe
> > > > > > better be understood as "an anointed ruler" (indefinite) or "an
> > > > > > exalted anointed one" (if נגיד be understood as the adjective
> > > > > > modifying משיח).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do you make of this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yonah
> > > > > >
> > > > > Yes, Yonah, I agree with you on the meaning of nageed as ruler. In
> > Dan.
> > > > > 9:25, who could "mashiach nageed" refer to? The words "mashiach
> > nageed"
> > > > > could refer to Cyrus, or an anointed leader of Israel, or to the
> > > > promised
> > > > > Messiah. The verse says that "mashiach nageed" is to come either
49
> > yrs
> > > > or
> > > > > 693 years after the word to restore and build Jerusalem. This
> > couldn't
> > > > be
> > > > > Cyrus because the word to restore and build Jerusalem was given by
> > Cyrus
> > > > > (and later Persian kings). Neither was there an outstanding
anointed
> > > > ruler
> > > > > of Israel meeting this time criteria. Thus "maschiach nageed" in
> > > > Dan.9:25
> > > > > must mean the Messiah.
> > > > > -Steve Miller
> > > > > Detroit
> > > > > www.voiceinwilderness.info
> 
> 
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