[b-hebrew] I think this is what Kirk asked for

Avi Wollman avi.wollman at gmail.com
Mon Jun 26 15:13:31 EDT 2006


Who said it makes a diffrence to God ? maybe it was the rabbis who
desided it made a diffrence. can you show from the Bible it self that
God showed that any of this list makes a diffrence in his eyes ?


On 6/26/06, Karl Randolph <kwrandolph at email.com> wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shoshanna Walker" <rosewalk at concentric.net>
> >
> > "Levicus 23, the Bible speaks about Atonement, Yom Kippur, and the
> > Bible says on this day we have to afflict our souls. How do you
> > afflict your souls? This is a commandment of 'God.' It is not clear
> > how you would fulfill this law, and 'God' is giving this as a very
> > important law.
> >
> Is this the correct understanding of the verse?
>
> "Afflict" I don't think is the correct meaning, rather
> humility, humbleness, and likewise "soul" means
> more than English (and for that matter, German or
> Yiddish term), so that humbling one's life means
> setting side one's pride to be humble before God.
>
> > When it says [Exodus 12:2] "This month shall mark for you the
> > beginning of the months"?  To which months is this referring?  Is it
> > referring to Egyptian months (where the Jews were living at the time)
> > or Chaldean months (from where their patriarch Abraham originated)?
> > Solar months or lunar months?  Without an oral tradition, there is no
> > way to know to what this verse is referring
> >
> The context answers this question. The month
> of Abib is meant. That was neither Egyptian nor
> Chaldean. The people living then understood
> Moses. What has happened is that we have lost
> much over time, making any explanation not
> original with Moses, but with those who came
> much later no longer familiar with Hebrew months.
>
> > When the Torah forbids certain birds [Lev. 11:13-19], does that mean
> > that all other birds are permitted?  Or are there sign for birds like
> > there are for animals [Lev. 11:2-8]?  How can anyone know whether
> > biblical law permits or forbids eating ducks, geese, and turkeys?
> >
> Why not?
>
> >    When the Torah [Ex. 16:29] says "Let no man leave his place on the
> > seventh day" to what place is this referring?  Does it mean his home,
> > his property if he has more than one home, his neighborhood, his
> > city, or something else ?  In fact, Isaiah [66:23] says "It shall be
> > that at every New Moon and on every sabbath all mankind will come to
> > bow down before Me - said the L-rd" which implies that people will
> > leave their homes on the sabbath and go to worship the L-rd .
> > Evidently, Isaiah did not understand this verse in Exodus as the
> > simple reading would have it.
> >
> Again, the problem is taking the verse out of context.
> Not all commands are universal, many given were for
> specific times and places. E.g. 2 Samuel 5:17-25.
>
> > What does the Torah mean when it [Ex. 20:10] forbids "work" on the
> > sabbath?  What work is forbidden and what is not?
>
> Look at the uses of the different words. (BD refers
> to any work. ML)KH refers to work taken to advance
> one's career. ML)KH was forbidden, not (BDH. Works
> of mercy and worship are allowed.
>
> > Without an oral explanation of the details of this forbidden work, it
> > is impossible to know what the Torah means.  How did G-d command our
> > fathers to keep Shabbat?  "You shall keep Shabbat holy, as I have
> > commanded your fathers" (Jeremiah 17:22).
> >
> Again Jeremiah was referencing a written set of law.
>
> > The sections of Exodus [ch. 21] and Deuteronomy [ch. 21-25] that deal
> > with monetary and physical crimes do not seem to contain enough
> > information to formulate a working legal system.  How can a court
> > legislate with so few guidelines?  Certainly, for courts to function
> > based on biblical law there must have been more information given in
> > the form of an oral law
> >
> That's lawyer speak. Looking at actions, taking by
> fraud and burglary are both stealing, already forbidden.
>
> > The laws of inheritance as stated in Numbers [27:8-11] cannot begin
> > to address all of the many complicated situations that can and have
> > arisen throughout the generations.  Without an oral law, how does a
> > society apply the biblical inheritance laws?
> >
> > How does one fulfill the biblical commandments of circumcision [Gen.
> > 17:10-14], fringes [Num. 15:38-39], and booths [Lev. 23:42]?  There
> > is not enough detail in the biblical directive to know how to fulfill
> > these commandments properly.  What are fringes?  What is a booth?
> > How much and where must be cut off in circumcision?  The biblical
> > text is too silent to enable following these commandments unless
> > there was an oral explanation
> >
> > A baby must be circumcised on the eighth day [Gen. 17:12].  What if
> > the eighth day falls out on the sabbath?  Can a circumcision take
> > place on a sabbath or is that considered work?  What if the baby is
> > sick?  For what conditions would it be permitted to delay the
> > circumcision?
> >
> There's a reference in the New Testament showing
> that circumcision was practiced on the Sabbath during
> Second Temple times.
>
> > The Passover sacrifice must be brought by every Jew [Ex. 12:47] on
> > the day before Passover [Num. 9:5].  What happens if that day falls
> > out on the sabbath?  Surely, slaughtering and offering a sacrifice is
> > work.  Which takes precedence -- the sabbath or the paschal
> > sacrifice?  There must be an oral law to explain this if these laws
> > were intended to be put into practice
> >
> > Numbers 8 describes the building of the menorah in the temple. This
> > work of the candlestick, which was a beaten gold unto the shaft
> > thereof, unto the flowers thereof with beaten work according to the
> > pattern which the Lord had showed Moses.  Where is the picture of the
> > pattern?
> >
> > There is a reliance on sages for interpreting the law in Exod  18:36
> > and in Deut 17:8-11.  In Deut. 17:8-11   What possible knowledge is
> > there that can be hidden?  If there is no oral law, then the only
> > basis for judgement is in the Torah which is open for anyone to
> > study.  Clearly, the entire need for the above process of going to
> > the central court and following their ruling implies that there is an
> > oral tradition which also serves as the basis for judgement.
>
> I didn't answer all the examples you gave above,
> enough though that one can see why many consider
> the Oral Law irrelevant, unneeded. That some verses
> can be understood linguistically as having different
> meanings than what Oral Law teaches, and many
> refer to previously written laws making Oral Law
> irrelevant, is the reasons that and many others don't
> follow Oral Law.
>
> Where we agree is that both of us hold the written
> Tanakh as God's Word and, except for copyist errors,
> trustworthy in all areas.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> --
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Avi Wollman
Fax: 972-2-6751151
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