[b-hebrew] shewa in imperative

Peter Kirk peterkirk at qaya.org
Fri Jun 24 08:08:14 EDT 2005


Vadim, I deliberately sent my message off list. Please do not copy 
private messages back to the list. In this case the point is more that I 
didn't want to prolong an off-topic discussion, but I might have been 
saying something confidential.

I agree that in any language there is an intonational difference between 
commands and other kinds of speech. I disagree that this is necessarily 
reflected in the vowel or stress patterns of the verb.


On 24/06/2005 12:52, VadimCherny wrote:

>I don't argue that "harass" or any other word could be pronounced differently. My point is, any speaker differentiates accent and vowel length among neutral, question, and exclamation.This is how we hear intonation. In exclamation, notably commands, first vowel is routinely reduced, just listen to milspeak.I hear the same in Arabic and English, so believe Hebrew imperatives are emphatic of neutral verbs. Try pronouncing catav is command, get c'tav or c'tov. Azerbaijani, Peter is right, stresses the first vowel in imperative at the expense of the second.
>
>Vadim Cherny
>
>.On 24/06/2005 08:22, Vadim Cherny wrote:
>
>  
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>>This becomes ridiculous. ...
>>
>>    
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>
>Vadim, George's point is that the English word "harass", like the 
>Russian "tvorog" for example, has two different pronunciations with 
>different stress patterns (but the same meaning), and each speaker will 
>use the same basic stress pattern in the imperative as in other forms. 
>So your example "harass" is an unfortunate choice.
>
>I know that some Russian verbs shift their stress in the imperative, but 
>I have no evidence of this happening in English, or for that matter in 
>Hebrew. In Azerbaijani the shift is in the opposite direction: the 
>stress is word final in most verb forms, and so on the ending, but in 
>the imperative it moves backwards on to the verb stem - necessarily in 
>the singular because there is no ending, but in the plural there is an 
>ending which is, unusually, unstressed. So this kind of stress shift is 
>by no means a language universal.
>
>  
>
>> 
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>>>Mr. Cherny obviously is lacking in his understanding of English.  There
>>>are two distinct pronunciations of "harass" which are not determined by
>>>the context in which they are found or the use to which they are put.
>>>
>>>Ha ' - es  or
>>>Ha  - ras '
>>>
>>>The pronunciation used is determined by the preference of the one using
>>>the term and not by its usage.
>>>
>>>george
>>>gfsomsel
>>>___________
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>b-hebrew mailing list
>>b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>>
>>
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>> 
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-- 
Peter Kirk
peter at qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk at qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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