[b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation

Patrick J. Emsweller patrick at clubgraves.com
Tue Aug 2 10:30:57 EDT 2005


The reason I ask is that I have seen Ieue, presented as Ieu-e and rendered
or interpreted "The Self Existing".

-patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Vadim Cherny [mailto:VadimCherny at mail.ru] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:29 AM
To: Patrick J. Emsweller; b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation


In the verb hypothesis, some transliteration of he would be expected, and
the word could resemble Ieue, albeit remotely.
In my hypothesis of 1-2-3ms suffixes, I could imagine Iaoe, but not Ieue,
unless in rapid pronunciation.

Vadim Cherny

>
> Vadim, could this Iao and Iaoa, be also Ieu or Ieue?
>
> -patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vadim Cherny [mailto:VadimCherny at mail.ru]
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:46 PM
> To: Patrick J. Emsweller
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation
>
> Final he might be semantically non-essential to begin with, a late suffix
of
> result.
> Iaoa could easily become Iao.
>
> Vadim Cherny
>
> > Maybe a bit of a curve ball here but maybe just a "seed
> thought".........any
> > one notice how many letters are in IAO?
> >
> > -patrick
> >
> > RE: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciationStart with possessive suffixes: i, a,
u.
> > For this or that reason, not essential here, supportive consonants were
> > introduced: i, ca (ta), hu. Suffix consonants lack semantical
importance.
> > Also note that 3ms hu-au-o, giving rise to yhu-yho-yao variants.
> >
> > There is a noun "an," essence. Ani (or, with non-essential suffix
> consonant,
> > anoci) is "my essence," abstracized as I. Ata is anta, "thine essence"
> that
> > became "thou." Anacnu is similarly "our essence." Different etymologies
> were
> > proposed for hu, but for our case only u is important, 3s possessive
> suffix,
> > making hu some word emasculated into he and 3s possessive suffix u.
> >
> > Iao would be literally "my, thine, his" (i-a-u, or later i-a-o), but I
> > speculate that Iao stands more generally for "I, thou, he" epitomized by
> the
> > possessive suffixes.
> >
> > Vadim Cherny
> >
> > > To the best of my knowledge I,You,He would be:
> >
> > )aNoCHiY)THuW)
> > and I really struggle to see how you turn that into a IAO
transliteration.
> >
> > RE: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation> I am interested to know how you come
> > about such a radical
> > theory. You must have more reason than a philosophical idea of a
society.
> >
> > Well, only "I, thou, he" could be pronounced Iao. The verb cannot.
> > Plural suffixes are construed similarly. Duality ai (later - plural
> e-ei-im)
> > means "thou, I". Abstract plural -o (-ot) is -au, "thou, he." This makes
> > sense: using 1s, the most personal relation, for duality, and 3ms, the
> > remotest, for abstract plurality.
> > Suffixes are vowels only. Consonants are semantical devices, vowels -
> > morphological. Suffix consonants change between nouns and verbs, but
> vowels
> > persist. Suffix consonants (caf 2s nouns, tav 2s verbs) served perhaps
to
> > write down suffixes without matres lectionis, or perhaps to avoid
> post-tonic
> > gemination in penultimates-stressed nouns. This is a separate topic.
> > YHWH cannot be a meaningful word, like the verb, since no one could
> possibly
> > declare a well-attested verb a great secret with unknown pronunciation.
> >
> > > How would you account for the forms YaH, YaHu/YaHo with your model?
> >
> > he could be mater lectionis for 2ms suffix -a. Incidentally, he is also
> > "supportive consonant" of 3ms -hu-au-o. Thus, yau=yhh=yh with mappiq.
> > yhu=yau with mater lectionis
> > yho=yao=yau with 3ms hu-o
> >
> > > How would you account for the transliterations IABE, IAOUAI etc.?
> >
> > Iabe is literal, not phonetic transliteration; waw-beta.
> > Iaouai is plural form of Iao, modeled upon plural Elokim.
> >
> > > Are there any patterns ANE cultures that led you to this hypothesis?
> >
> > Of course, Judaism is unique.
> >
> > > Is there any internal evidence in the TaNaKH which supports your
theory?
> >
> > Depending on how you read it. Milgrom's interpretation, I believe, is
> > supportive.
> >
> > Vadim Cherny
> >
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