[b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation

Read, James C K0434995 at kingston.ac.uk
Mon Aug 1 14:11:24 EDT 2005


Actually the transliterations contain no consanants at all. 

IAW is three vowels
IAOUAI is six vowels

while 

IABE is the only transliteration containing a consanant and is evidently
the transliteration of a form in a perios and place where the waw was 
pronounced as a 'v'.

The Greeks had no way of representing the consonant 'yodh' and so replaced it 
with an 'I'. They could not replace the 'He' for two reasons
a) The sound is not even remotely similar
b) It would have been confused as a 'gimmel'

Conclusion

The transliterations we seeee represent the vowels rather than the consonants 
as the consonants were impossible to perfectly represent. Althoug,it was possible
to partially represent the 'yodh' and the 'waw' as in IAOUAI YaHoWaY/YaHoWeH/YaHoWaH

-----Original Message-----
From: Vadim Cherny [mailto:VadimCherny at mail.ru]
Sent: Mon 8/1/2005 7:01 PM
To: Read, James C
Cc: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation
 
RE: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciationExactly. In your examples, he is not lost, but somehow transliterated. One such transliteration is assimilation ha-alpha. In Iao, the second he is lost completely. Peter, as I understand him, suggests that the first he is also lost completely, though much weaker schwa survived as aleph.
Also, your examples show very different phonological environment from the verb ihwh (VCVV). Preservation of a single consonant in the word among vowels is highly likely. Significantly, he is pronounced even now in this word, though largely lost elsewhere.

Vadim Cherny





  > Both the LXX and the Christian Greek scriptures are filled with them. Every name
  which has a 'he' midword in Hebrew has absolutely attempt at rendering such in
  the Greek. e.g. IHSOUS, IWANHN etc. The W represents an omega (long 'O') and the
  H  represents Eta (various theories on how this was pronounced classical Greek
  view is similar to 'air' Koine Greek view is 'eh' as in they)



  RE: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciationIs there a transliterated name where root he was lost, especially in the emphatic environment of vowelized third root letter? After all, first he is clearly pronounced in this verb even now, when he is otherwise lost.

  Vadim Cherny


    The wealth of attestations of Hebrew name transliterations stands overwhelmingly
    against your reasoning here. I am not aware of even one Greek transliteration of
    a Hebrew name which attempts to represent the 'he'. The greeks could only pronounce
    a 'he' at the very beginning of a name e.g. HO THEOS and the difference between
    such an aspiration and a gamma was more than evident to Greek speakers.

    Of course, if you can find examples of Hebrew names transliterated with a gamma in
    the place of the 'he' then I will have to reconsider my position on this.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Vadim Cherny
    Sent: Mon 8/1/2005 7:27 AM
    To: Peter Kirk
    Cc: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
    Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation

    > The form IAW is just one of many different attested Greek forms of the
    > Name. It deserves no more specific attention than the others. But it
    > clearly corresponds to the first part of the names starting Jeho-, since
    > sheva was often represented by alpha and Greek has no "h".

    Why Iaw? Iao. Iaw gives substance to the verb hypothesis.

    All other forms are derivative from Iao, as far as I understand. None of
    them is even remotely related to any possible pronunciation of the verb.

    That Greeks had no he doesn't mean that they could not transcribe it and
    omitted it. If alpha is for shewa, then it is completely incredible that
    reasonably careful Clement omitted both sounds he. The first he is
    sufficiently strong for the Greeks to hear; the sound is closer to gamma
    than to nil. Also, if your careful Greeks represented schwa with alpha, all
    the more they should represent somehow the second he - much strong than
    schwa. Final he also has much stronger claim for the "alpha-status" than the
    schwa has. Greek form of the verb would be, rather, igba, iagba, or iaga.

    Do we have he in a similar position in Secunda? I don't have Hexapla at
    hand. Perhaps you remember.

    I think, Feldman also cites Varro for Iao. It is unlikely that Romans, too,
    did not hear any he. Anyway, with these assumptions of missing he anything
    could be justified.

    If I understand you correctly, you say that Iao is yaho-smth name, not YHWH.
    This assumption, you see, is pure and far-fetched conjecture. We know that
    Iao was the Name; neither ancient author was speaking of generic Hebrew
    names. In any case, the names derived from the Name, and if the names were
    pronounced Iao, then YHWH was likewise.

    Just admit that Iao and other attested pronunciations run head-on against
    the verb hypothesis.

    Vadim Cherny

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