[b-hebrew] Re: PS /g/

gfsomsel at juno.com gfsomsel at juno.com
Wed Nov 17 13:30:24 EST 2004


On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:08:18 -0500 "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph at email.com>
writes:
> George:
> 
> What do we know about Hebrew prior to "putative Moses"? Only what is 
> referring to earlier events written in Hebrew. Did Moses edit those 
> earlier stories to make them conform to the Hebrew of his time? 
> There is no way that I know of that we can tell, either way.
> 
Just what are these "earlier events written in Hebrew"?  If Moses
supposedly is responsible for the entire Pentateuch, then how are you to
distinguish which are earlier?

> As for the dating of the Ugaritic texts, there was a debate in this 
> forum not long ago concerning the accuracy of traditional dates. But 
> even the earliest dates for the Ugaritic literature that I have seen 
> (ca. 1200 BCE) is still well after Moses (who wrote ca. 1450-1400 
> BCE). If Rohl and others like him are correct, even that date is a 
> couple of centuries too early.
> 
That's an absurd date for this supposed figure.  BTW:  There probably was
a "Moses" to whom many legends accreted, but this was not the Moses
portrayed in the Pentateuch.

> As for the literary style I referred to, it was not unique to 
> Hebrew, rather it was one shared by other cultures as well, where 
> the title and author were listed at the end of a document, not the 
> beginning. There are several places in Genesis that hint, if not 
> more, at inclusion of documents using this style.
> 
I think you will find that these documents mentioned are not quoted
extensively.  Only small selections are used. 

> As far as *your* dating is concerned, in the absence of historical 
> documents other than Tanakh that can either confirm or disprove the 
> accuracy of Tanakh as a historical document, how can your dates be 
> anything other than theologically based?

There are inconsistencies within the Tanak itself as well as the "lack of
evidence" from archaeology whose shouting is becoming deafening.

george
gfsomsel


> 
> Karl W. Randolph.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gfsomsel at juno.com
> 
> > 
> > On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:31:24 -0500 "Karl Randolph" 
> <kwrandolph at email.com>
> > writes:
> > > George:
> > > 
> > > When was the earliest Hebrew written? The earliest Phoenician? 
> > > 
> > > Since the earliest historical records of writing in Hebrew were 
> on 
> > > what we today would call leather scrolls, the earliest 
> specifically 
> > > mentioning writing before 1400 BCE, wouldn?t that put it earlier 
> 
> > > than the earliest Phoenician writing? And even though Genesis 
> does 
> > > not specifically mention writing, that it preserves a literary 
> style 
> > > that went out of style before Moses, that implies writing 
> centuries 
> > > before Moses.
> > > 
> > > The next question, do you trust the historical records, and why? 
> I 
> > > would not be surprised that if you don?t trust the records, it 
> is 
> > > for theological and not historical reasons.
> > > 
> > > Karl W. Randolph.
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: gfsomsel at juno.com
>  
> > ____________
> > 
> > How do you know what Hebrew may or may not have been prior to a 
> putative
> > Moses?  Do you have any examples of Hebrew to support your 
> argument that
> > Genesis displays a style of writing prior to such time?
> > 
> > How about the Ugaritic materials?  These were prior to any 
> supposed Moses
> > and were of the region concerned.   Also, reminiscences common to
> > Ugaritic material are found in the Tanak.  This is likely material 
> common
> > to the NW Semitic region.  It has been preserved at Ras Shamra due 
> to the
> > fact that it was recorded on clay tablets as were the Akkadian 
> and
> > Babylonian writings.  I think your dating is purely theologically
> > motivated.
> > 
> > george
> > gfsomsel
> > 
> 
> -- 
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george
gfsomsel


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