[b-hebrew] Isaiah 53 read within the book as a whole

UUC unikom at paco.net
Sun May 23 13:49:01 EDT 2004


Dear Liz,

> It is Cyrus again in Isaiah 61 tho.
Yeah? How about vs.5,6?

> And it is Cyrus in 42
vs.2,3?

, in 48:14ff, in 49
obviously not in vs.3,4?

> (not in 50, unless he is
> the servant mentioned in 50:10)
So not everywhere?

> Clei are used in Ezra to refer to the vessels from YHWH"s temple.
> They are used in the Mesha inscription to refer to the vessels
> from YHWH's temple in Moab.
Yes, but they are clei vessels, which wouldn't be taken by the occupants,
unless our understanding of the then material culture is way off the mark.

>Their sin becomes
> his responsibility. It's a legal obligation, not a moral one.
In Judaism, the whole concept of mishpat is centered around zedek; remember
the story of the two pillars. No responsibility without guilt. The high
priest actually shares the guilt of his people, not some guiltless
responsibility, like in criobolium (well, possibly even there). They are one
body before the Almighty.


Best regards,

Vadim

> > Not to delve in the correct translation of every word, here it is:
> >
> > 10. He has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations.
> > All the ends of the earth have seen it! -- the saving power
> > of our God!
> > 11. Depart! Depart! Get out from there!
> > Touch no unclean thing.
> > Get out from the midst of it! Purify yourselves, you who
> > carry YHWH's clei (earthen vessels, or weapons).
> >
> > prepare to be the holy warriors, in a sense
>
> Clei are used in Ezra to refer to the vessels from YHWH"s temple.
> They are used in the Mesha inscription to refer to the vessels
> from YHWH's temple in Moab.
> What is your problem in seeing them here? Why bring in some
> extraneous thing when the whole point of Deutero-Isaiah is to
> get the people to leave Babylon and go to Israel to rebuild the
> temple and to install YHWH"s vessels in it?
> >
> >
> > Isaiah is comprised of many themes, with various
> > interpolations. That he speaks about Cyrus chapters ago,
> > doesn't mean he speaks of him here. How ouwl you weigh
> > 52:13-15? As ugly Cyrus?
> I don't know.
> It is Cyrus again in Isaiah 61 tho.
> And it is Cyrus in 42, in 48:14ff, in 49 (not in 50, unless he is
> the servant mentioned in 50:10), and in 61, as I said.
>
>
> On the matter of shared guilt, I think you miss my point.
> On the day of atonement, the high priest purges the
> sanctuary on behalf of himself and on behalf of the
> community. He is carrying out his responsibility for their
> sin. This doesn't mean that he didn't sin himself or that
> he did. It doesn't deal with that at all. Their sin becomes
> his responsibility. It's a legal obligation, not a moral one.
> When Truman said "the buck stops here," he meant he
> was the one who was ultimately responsible, not that
> he was guilty (and not that he wasn't guilty).
> Best,
> Liz
> >
> >
>
>




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