[b-hebrew] Isaiah 53 read within the book as a whole

UUC unikom at paco.net
Fri May 21 14:48:56 EDT 2004


rabbis are innovators. You know what that mean. Tell zaddukis about the
interpretation.

Vadim



> Well, it was the rabbis who suggest it.
> I don't know. You could be right, but they could be right too.
> You'd have to prove that he actually died tho.
> Liz
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of UUC
> > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:47 PM
> > To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53 read within the book as a whole
> >
> > Dear Liz,
> >
> > Ps116 refers to death, see verse 3. Lands of the living is
> > just what is said, life.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Vadim
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Do you know where the land of the living is employed as a
> > metaphor
> > > > for the territory?
> > > I know of Psalm 137:4 (where YHWH"s songs cannot be sung since they
> > > are in a foreign land) which can be compared to Psalm 116:9 (where
> > > YHWH's songs can be sung because they are in the land of
> > the living).
> > > The Rabbis Rashi and Redak interpret "the land of the living"
> > > in Isaiah 53 to be Judah and Jerusalem so I agree with them in this
> > > instance.
> > > Best,
> > > Liz
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Vadim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Israel had suffered double for all her sins by the exile.
> > > > > Deuetero Isaiah preached that the time of forgiveness had
> > > > dawned and
> > > > > that it was time to return home. The  pathway for our god
> > > > across the
> > > > > desert which was the return of YHWH to Zion which all the
> > > > world could
> > > > > see was the ret urn of the temple vessels (Isiah 52) from
> > > > Babylon, the
> > > > > temple of Marduk where they had been, to Zion and the
> > > > rebuilt temple.
> > > > > That is what Second Isaiah is about, the return of the Jews to
> > > > > Zion rebuilt. The climax is Isaiah 52. The one spoken
> > of in Isaiha
> > > > > 53 was cut off from the land of the living, that is, he
> > > > didn't get to
> > > > > return, but he had enabled the return somehow.
> > > > > Liz Fried
> > > > > A2
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > > > [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > Harold R.
> > > > > > Holmyard III
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:54 PM
> > > > > > To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53 read within the book as a
> > > > > > whole
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear David,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like this idea that Isaiah 53 explains how Israel
> > > > received double
> > > > > > for all her sins, and I will have to try and read Isaiah
> > > > that way to
> > > > > > see if it works.  I have always understood double to
> > imply that
> > > > > > Israel had been punished twice as much as she had sinned.
> > > > And much
> > > > > > in Scripture suggests Israel will be punished terribly before
> > > > > > ultimate peace and victory comes.
> > > > > > So while I accept all that you said and am grateful that you
> > > > > > said it, the words of Isaiah 40 still seem enigmatic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yours,
> > > > > > Harold Holmyard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >To this situation a surprising twist is
> > > > > > >introduced: exile is announced (39:5-7) and then it is to
> > > > > > end (40:1-2)!
> > > > > > >The surprise is that their iniquity has been atoned for, yet
> > > > > > >nirstah creates an uncertainty about how this has
> > > > occurred, i.e. is
> > > > > > the niphal
> > > > > > >reflexive or passive? An ambiguity is introduced,
> > fanned by the
> > > > > > >ambiguous dual kiplayim. In what way has Jerusalem
> > received an
> > > > > > >"equivalent" punishment for so many years rebellious
> > years--for
> > > > > > >judgement is proclaimed then quickly announced as
> > complete? All
> > > > > > >this "good news" they are to herald (40:9), yet how this has
> > > > > > >been
> > > > > > achieved
> > > > > > >is hidden by nirstah.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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