[b-hebrew] Isaiah 53: in his death?

UUC unikom at paco.net
Fri May 21 02:16:54 EDT 2004


Dear Liz,

>I wouldn't translate 10 this way, rather, "if  you would put
a ransom on his life...." or "if you would make a ransom of
his life."<
Possible, but you need to establish Isaiah's usage of impersonal verbs.
However, implausible, since requires different antecedents in a phrase.

>Generally I avoid the word "soul" as I don't think souls had
been invented yet.<
See Genesis. nefesh and hayim are different.

>I also prefer "ransom" to guilt offering (1 Sam 6).<
Possible, but the man's guilt is discussed earlier - he lifted, shared the
avonot.

>There were no Egyptian judges in Egypt in the Persian period, they were all
foreign.<
You're reading the modern stateship into the ancient life. State judges
handled the issues, which were not resolved by the community judges.  At
least, this was the practice from the beginning of the era or so. No reason
to doubt applying it retrospectively.


Best regards,

Vadim


> > Don't impute me defending anything Christian. Doesn't work.
> Sorry, I meant the general "you" not t h e specific "you."
> >
> > I don't reject your Persian court hypothesis out of hand, but
> > I have a problem with mishpat and with the verses,
> >
> > 10. And God, desiring his dejection, made him ill;
> >
> > if his soul had brought a guilt offering,
> >
> > he would have seen [his] descendants,
> >
> > prolonged days,
> >
> > and the will of God would have succeeded through his efforts.
> >
> > 11. In result of the work of his soul,
> >
> > he would have started seeing,
> >
> > would have been filled by his knowledge,
> >
> > my slave would have justified the righteous before multitude,
> >
> > and their sinful digressions he would have withstood.
>
> I have no idea what these verses mean.
> I've tried to translate this passage for a paper on Isaiah,
> and faltered just on these verses.
> I wouldn't translate 10 this way, rather, "if  you would put
> a ransom on his life...." or "if you would make a ransom of
> his life."
> Generally I avoid the word "soul" as I don't think souls had
> been invented yet.
> I also prefer "ransom" to guilt offering (1 Sam 6).
> >
> >
> > >I can
> > > assure you there were no Jewish courts even in  Judah during the
> > >Persian period.
> > hmmm, how could anyone know this?
> > Judges were required for the returning population, some of
> > them were surely available to handle the crrent disputes. But
> > this is speculation, anyway.
> No, it isn't. This is one of the results of my survey of the evidence
> from Persian period Babylon and Egypt. Every named judge was Persian
> except one in Egypt who was Babylonian. There were no Egyptian
> judges in Egypt in the Persian period, they were all foreign. Persians
> dispensed Persian law and Persian sanctions. There were plenty of
> judges all right, but they were all foreign. In addition to my article and
> the
> book, you can look at an article by R. Steiner in JBL, 2001 I think on
> Ezra's mission.
>
> Best,
> Liz
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Vadim
>
>
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