[b-hebrew] Isaiah 53: in his death?

UUC unikom at paco.net
Thu May 20 03:51:48 EDT 2004


Actually, pulling the beard is encountered even in Talmud as a sanction.

In 53, the man was evidently executed by Jews; Isaiah, in my opinion, would
hardly call heathen court mishpat.

Best regards,

Vadim


> Dear Jack, Harold, Peter, Vadim, etc.
> These events are to be treated as descriptive of events
> that took place in the Persian period, the time of Second
> Isaiah. Any other interpretation violates all common sense
> imo. Prophets deal with the events and concerns of their
> own times. They do not deal with events happening 700 or
> 500 years in the future.
>
> I also don't agree that the protagonist in Isaiah 53 was
> executed by his own people. If he was executed (and I say if)
> it was by the Persians in Persia.
>
> This poem is a continuation of Isaiah 50, and there the speaker
> is definitely jailed by Persians. Pulling out the hairs of the head
> and beard, as well as flogging, are Persian sanctions, not Jewish.
> Read Helzer, M. "The Flogging and Plucking of Beards in the
> Achaemenid Empire and the Chronology of Nehemiah," AMI 28
> (1995-96):305-7. This article definitely shows the Persian background
> to Isaiah 50. The speaker is jailed for disobedience to Persian authority
> for some reason. The kindlers of fire (50:11) may be Jews who rush after
> the customs of the Zoroastrians.
>
> I see Isaiah 53 as refering in the third person to the first person
> speaker of Isaiah 50.
> Liz Fried
>
> Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph. D.
> Visiting Scholar
> Department of Near Eastern Studies
> University of Michigan
> 2068 Frieze Bldg.
> 105 S. State St.
> Ann Arbor, Michigan  48109-1285
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of UUC
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:26 AM
> > To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53: in his death?
> >
> > Dear Jack,
> >
> > You're right that the rule was hardly enforced in the
> > tumultuous first century, especially with illegal execution
> > by foreigners.
> > However, if you treat chapter 53 as prophecy, the man was
> > executed by his own people - thus mishpat, legal proceeding -
> > not by foreigners.
> > Besides, I guess, the observance was more rigorous in
> > Isaiah's time. This is only a guess.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Vadim Cherny
> >
>
> >
>
>
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