[b-hebrew] Re: Eden and Flood

Brian Roberts formoria at carolina.rr.com
Sat Jun 12 20:30:23 EDT 2004


On Saturday, June 12, 2004, at 04:08  PM, Walter R. Mattfeld wrote:

> As Karl has so rightly pointed out, the notion that Eden could never be
> found because the Flood had so destroyed and changed the landscape was
> embraced by a number of Renaissance scholars.
>
> Of interest, though is a PhD dissertation in 1696 by Beck at the 
> University
> of Jena, in Germany (written in Latin, the international "scholarly 
> language
> of his day"). He argued that Eden could be found despite the Flood. How 
> he
> arrived at this notion is quite interesting. He argued that one of the 
> lands
> mentioned in the Edenic account was called Havilah and it was near the 
> river
> Gihon. Find Havilah and your on your way to finding Eden, or so he 
> argued.
> He "noted" that a man named Havilah appeared in Genesis 10:29, a 
> descendant
> of Shem. He suggested that _perhaps_ the land of Havilah was "named 
> after
> this man" -if this hunch was correct-  then Eden's location could be
> determined in a post-flood world, as Havilah was born AFTER the Flood.
>
> He noted that Havilah's brother's were Sheba and Ophir. He reckoned 
> Sheba to
> be Classical Greek Saba in the Yemen (as so preserved in Classical Roman
> Geographical sources) and thus suggested Havilah was near by. He 
> eventually
> settled on Eden being preserved at the port of Aden in the Yemen.
>
> Unknown to Beck, Jewish Hasmonean Pseudepigraphical Literature (2d-1st
> century BCE) mentioned Eden was "the source of spices and incense," and 
> it
> was to be found _according to the Book of Jubilees_, by following the 
> Nile
> (Geon) SOUTH then EAST to Eden. The Nile has TWO tributaries from the 
> East,
> both are formed near Lake Tana in Ethiopia. Just east of Tana/Ethiopia 
> is
> the "Land of Aden."  In Hasmonaean times the source of many Spices and
> Incense was understood to be Sheba in the Yemen (perhaps from the Queen 
> of
> Sheba's gifts to Solomon ?).
>
> Of interest, is that Medieval Yemenite Jewish traditions (14th/15th 
> century
> CE) claim the land of Eden is in the Yemen, as noted by an Italian Rabbi
> when Yemenite Jews showed up at Jerusalem on a Pilgrimage in the 15th
> century BCE.
>
> Arab traditions have Cain and Abel buried at Aden. Of course there are
> several other suggestions for Eden's location (Lebanon Edhin, and 
> northern
> Mesopotamia {Beth-Eden]). Some of them mentioned by David Rohl. Some
> scholars have suggested Eden is a "re-working" the Sumerian Land of 
> Dilmun
> myth, and locate it at/near Al Qurnah in the marshlands of southern
> Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers come together to 
> form one
> river the Shalt al-Arab which empties into the Persian Gulf.
>
> I have two articles on Eden, if interested cf. the following urls :
>
> http://www.bibleorigins.net/Edenslocation.html
>
> http://www.bibleorigins.net/Edenadhanamarib.html
>
> Regards, Walter
> Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre, M.A. Ed.
> mattfeld12 at charter.net
> www.bibleorigins.net

Walter,

You would have a hard time proving the Eden-Aden connection. First of 
all, modern Aden was called Eudaemon is the 1st century BCE, which would 
be the first known reference to it. ("Eudaemon Arabia was once a 
full-fledged city, when vessels from India did not go to Egypt and those 
of Egypt did not dare sail to places further on, but only came this 
far") (see Periplus of the Erythraean Sea). Heuristically, I don't see 
the connection to be made here.

Brian

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph at email.com>
> To: "Hebrew" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Eden

>
>> The problem of locating Eden is the extent of the flood under Noah. If
>> it was world wide, as the text says, then, according to experts in
>> hydrology, it would have completely rearranged the surface of the
>> earth, effectively destroying the original Eden. The present names were
>> given by Noah and his sons to the rivers they found after exiting the
>> ark. As such, the names point not so much to the original Garden of
>> Eden, but to the location where the ark rested at the end of the flood.
>>
>> Not everybody believes the text.
>>
>> Karl W. Randolph.
>
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