[b-hebrew] RE: Kadeshah & Judah

Medina, Vincent VMedina at cbcag.edu
Wed Jul 14 12:38:37 EDT 2004


Guess again:

When Judah sent the kid by his friend the Adullamite, to recover the
pledge from the woman, he could not find her.  21 He asked the
townspeople, "Where is the temple prostitute who was at Enaim by the
wayside?" But they said, "No prostitute has been here."  22 So he
returned to Judah, and said, "I have not found her; moreover the
townspeople said, 'No prostitute has been here.'"

Regards, 

Vince

Associate Professor
Central Bible College
3000 N. Grant Avenue
Springfield, Missouri  65803


-----Original Message-----
From: david.kimbrough at charter.net [mailto:david.kimbrough at charter.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 11:34 AM
To: Medina, Vincent; b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Kadeshah & Judah

Not quite:

Genesis 38:21 (NASB) He [Judah] asked the men of her place, saying,
"Where is the temple prostitute [kadeshah] who was by the road at
Enaim?" But they said, "There has been no temple prostitute here."


> 
> From: "Medina, Vincent" <VMedina at cbcag.edu>
> Date: 2004/07/14 Wed PM 04:28:20 GMT
> To: <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Kadeshah
> 
> To be precise, from Judah's perspective she was a zonah (v. 15), it
was
> his Canaanite friend who referred to her as a Qadeshah (v. 21).
> 
> Vince
> 
> Associate Professor
> Central Bible College
> 3000 N. Grant Avenue
> Springfield, Missouri  65803
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> david.kimbrough at charter.net
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:50 AM
> To: Peter Kirk; Bearpecs at aol.com
> Cc: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Kadeshah
> 
> While later traditions certainly condemns the ritual prostitutes, in
> Genesis 38 Judah thinks nothing too much amiss of making use of what
he
> thinks is a road side *kadeshah*, who is, of course, is actually is
> daughter in law Tamar.  Whenever Genesis 38 was writen, the author
(and
> audiance) obviously did not think using the services of *kadeshah* too
> taboo or the author would not have had one of the patriarchs doing so.
> 
> > 
> > From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk at qaya.org>
> > Date: 2004/07/14 Wed AM 08:29:22 GMT
> > To: Bearpecs at aol.com
> > CC: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] "Sodomite" in 2 Kings 23.7 & Homosexuality
> > 
> > On 14/07/2004 05:04, Bearpecs at aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > >...
> > > 
> > >I also think it is likely that a qadesha associated with a
sanctuary
> may  not 
> > >have been a "temple prostitute" in the sense of a woman who
commited
> sexual  
> > >acts for cultic, ritual reasons.  I am not aware of any evidence
that
> ancient 
> > >Israel practiced ritual sex for cultic purposes -- or even
> acknowledged  for 
> > >example any sympathetic magic of human sex encouraging agricultural

> > >fertility.  (And if you say that all the evidence has been
expurgated
> from  the Bible, 
> > >then why would the mention of qedeshot not also be expurgated?)
> Rather, I 
> > >would suggest that a qedesha may have been a woman (presumably a
> slave) 
> > >dedicated to the sanctuary, just as other items were dedicated to
the
> sanctuary.  
> > >Her income would then have belonged to the sanctuary.   Thus, she
may
> have been 
> > >a prostitute, and a "holy" prostitute in the sense that  her cost
> went to the 
> > >upkeep of the holy sanctuary, but not a "temple prostitute"  in the
> classic 
> > >meaning of the term.  (A qadesh -- whether performing  homosexual
or 
> > >heterosexual acts -- would similarly have been a sanctuary
> prostitute but did not engage 
> > >in sex for cultic purposes.)  This  would be just as deplorable in
> the eyes 
> > >of the Bible as temple prostitution, but  I suggest is more
> consistent with 
> > >what we know of the theological  environment.
> > > 
> > >  
> > >
> > The answer to your theory is in what Yigal wrote:
> > 
> > >In all of
> > >these, it refers to something that the Bible regards negatively,
some
> > >forbidden practice. Since the root QD$ is usually related to things
> > >"sacred", one would assume that here, too, the reference is to some
> > >forbidden cultic activity.
> > >
> > 
> > Furthermore, in many of the references QADESH is linked to the 
> > idolatrous practices of the neighbouring nations. It is clear that,
to
> 
> > the faithful Israelites who wrote the Bible books, this was
something 
> > alien, idolatrous and detestable which had been imported into
> Israelite 
> > religion by syncretists. Ritual sex for cultic purposes was indeed
> never 
> > a part of normative Yahwism. But the Bible repeatedly tells us that 
> > non-normative pagan practices were imported into Yahwism, and
> condemned 
> > by the biblical authors. Even without the explicit references, we

> would 
> > expect cultic prostitution to be one of these practices. 2 Kings
23:7
> is 
> > one of the passages in which these practices are condemned, in that
> they 
> > were stamped out by Josiah who is commended as the ideal faithful
king
> 
> > (v.25).
> > 
> > So, although we cannot be sure exactly what a QADESH did, we cannot 
> > argue that it was not temple prostitution because this was not an 
> > Israelite practice. Israelite practice in the pre-exilic period did
> not 
> > always match the ideals of the Deuteronomist, and the texts bear
> witness 
> > to that in their condemnations. Indeed, at times, such as the reign
of
> 
> > Manasseh, Israelite practice was much like that of the surrounding 
> > nations, including child sacrifice (2 Kings 21:6), and the use of
the 
> > word QADESH in association with such periods suggests that temple 
> > prostitution was included.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Peter Kirk
> > peter at qaya.org (personal)
> > peterkirk at qaya.org (work)
> > http://www.qaya.org/
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> > 
> 
> David Kimbrough
> San Gabriel
> 
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David Kimbrough
San Gabriel




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