Re: Re: [b-hebrew] An interesting translation of Psalms 143:2a

moon at mail.sogang.ac.kr moon at mail.sogang.ac.kr
Tue Aug 24 02:27:03 EDT 2004



[George]: 
> First, your tranliteration is very misleading.  Here is the text.
>  
> W:)aL_T.fBoW B:Mi$:P.f+ )eT_(aB:D.eKf C.iY Lo)_YiCD.aQ L:PfNeYKf KfL_XfY
>  
> Apparently he is deriving "statue" from Mi$P.f+ which makes no sense to me.  Mi$P.f+ signifies "judgment", "custom", "case [legal]" or even the "pouch of judgment" which contained the Urim and Thumim.  Moreover, what in the world would "Do not reproach your servant with statue" mean? 

=> I think he means "Do not reproach your servant by means of _regulations_ of Torah".

 One of the first duties of a translator is to make the text comprehensible -- assuming that the text made sense in the first place.  I would say that he fails miserably here.

[Moon]:
Thanks, George, for your comments. I want to give Boyarin 
a benefit of doubt with respect to his reading of Psalms 143:2;
He is a Jew and a Talmud scholar. Let me quote more about his 
reading.


------------------
p.119, A Radical Jews:

THe word Mi$P.f+, which I have translated "statue", in other contexts in Psalms itself,
refers precisely the Jewish Law of Torah,k which explicitly marks off the Jews from others. "He has spoken his words to Jacob, his laws and _statues_ to Israel. He has not 
done so for nay other nation, and _statues_ they do not know" (Psalms 147:16-17). 
--------------------

I have noticed that the netbible.come translates Mi$P.f+ as "regulations", and
some Bible translations take it as "ordinances".

So, I did not think that translating Mi$P.f+ to "statue/regulation" would be
so problematic. My concern was (1) the feasiblity of translating 
 W:)aL_T.fBoW  )eT_(aB:D.eKf to "do not come unto your servant",
and whether we can take it to mean "do not reproach your servant".

Sincerely
Moon Jung
Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea 

 
> 
> -----원본메시지-----
> 보낸사람: "George F. Somsel" 
> 받는사람: moon at mail.sogang.ac.kr
> 참조: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org,moon at sogang.ac.kr
> 날짜: 2004/08/24(화)14:39
> 제목: Re: [b-hebrew]  An interesting translation of Psalms 143:2a
> 
> 
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:01:29 +0900 moon at mail.sogang.ac.kr writes:
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Boyarin, in his book "A Radical Jew", translated Psalms 143:2a as 
> > follows (p.119):
> > > 
> > >  Do not reproach your servant with statue, [for no living being 
> > will be justified 
> > >                                              before you]
> > > 
> > > The usual translation is: do not enter into judgement with your 
> > servant.
> > > 
> > > The original is:
> > > 
> > >   AL-TABOAH BEMISFAT ETH-YABDEQA.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > BDB says about ETH:
> > > 
> > >  
> > > ETH marks an accusative in other relations than that of
> > > direct object to a verb: (a) with verbs of motion (very rare)
> > > denoting the goal. 
> > > 
> > > So AL-TABOAH BEMISFAT ETH-YABDEQA can be taken to mean:
> > > 
> > >   Do not come unto your servant with statue.
> > > 
> > > So, Boyarin's rendering seems possible. On the other hand, verb 
> > BOH seems to 
> > > go with prep. BE more  naturally. BDB says about BE:
> > > 
> > >  with verbs of motion, when the movement to a place results in 
> > rest in it,
> > >  INTO: after BAH, NATAN, SHALAQ.
> > > 
> > > Though  MISHFAT is not a place, but a process, I think entering 
> > into a process
> > makes sense as much as entering into  a place. So, the traditional 
> > translation 
> > clearly makes sense. 
> > 
> > I am interested in Boyarin suggested his translation because of the 
> > way
> > 143:2b is quoted in Rom 3:20a:
> >  
> >  No flesh will be justified from works of Torah before him.   
> > 
> > Paul adds "from works of Torah" to the original. But if we take 
> > Psalms 143:2a
> > as Boyarin suggests, this addition makes sense. In the context, 
> > Psalms 143:2b
> > can be taken to mean "no living being will be justified before you 
> > [
> > JUDGED WITH STATUE]". From this, it seems natural for Paul to write
> > " No flesh will be justified from works of Torah before him."
> > 
> > Any comments?
> >  
> >  
> > > Moon Jung
> > > Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea 
> __________________
>  
> First, your tranliteration is very misleading.  Here is the text.
>  
> W:)aL_T.fBoW B:Mi$:P.f+ )eT_(aB:D.eKf C.iY Lo)_YiCD.aQ L:PfNeYKf KfL_XfY
>  
> Apparently he is deriving "statue" from Mi$P.f+ which makes no sense to me.  Mi$P.f+ signifies "judgment", "custom", "case [legal]" or even the "pouch of judgment" which contained the Urim and Thumim.  Moreover, what in the world would "Do not reproach your servant with statue" mean?  One of the first duties of a translator is to make the text comprehensible -- assuming that the text made sense in the first place.  I would say that he fails miserably here.
>  
> george
> gfsomsel
> 


Moon R. Jung
Associate Professor
Dept of Media Technology
Graduate School of Media Comm
Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea





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