[b-hebrew] Yom Kippur
dwashbur at nyx.net
Mon Aug 23 21:31:48 EDT 2004
On Monday 23 August 2004 17:01, Patrina wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 07:06:57 -0600, "Dave Washburn" <dwashbur at nyx.net>
> [Patrina wrote:]
> > > The problem with that view of course is that YHWH does NOT accept human
> > > sacrifice and forbids it, no matter how willing the victim. The idea
> > > of an innocent substitute being sacrificed to remove guilt was common
> > > in the ANE. It wasn't always an animal but was often a firstborn child!
> > > However, in Jeremiah YHWH states that human sacrifice never even
> > > entered his mind (Jer 7:31). In Torah terms a human sacrifice for
> > > atonement is simply not valid, and was a practice that was bitterly
> > > opposed by Jeremiah, since it was still being practised at the Tophets.
> > > The very idea of YHWH yielding his innocent "firstborn son" like
> > > worshippers of Baal Hamon - who brought their innocent firstborn sons
> > > to the Tophet as
> > > whole burnt offerings - is totally absurd, and to be honest, as a
> > > former Christian I never thought deeply enough on this issue.
> [Dave wrote:]
> > This reflects a drastic misunderstanding of the theology behind the
> > central
> > event of Christianity. It includes not only Jesus' death, but
> > resurrection
> > as well. Equating it with "human sacrifice," and particularly with
> > Canaanite
> > practices, misconstrues the whole idea, but as this topic is very far
> > afield
> > from list purposes, that's as much as I'll say. Harold has already
> > addressed
> > most of it much more eloquently than I can anyway.
> Dave, I'll let this be my last word on the topic too. Your mention of
> resurrection is relevant to the topic of innocent firstborn sacrifice as
> atonement for sin. These firstborn children were MLK offerings (see
> Carthage), who carried the sinner's penitence to "god" as the smoke rose
> to the heavens - pure innocent intercessors. It's not the same as
> bodily resurrection obviously, but this ancient understanding obviously
> made a new Christian application of these understandings very appealing
> to 1st century CE minds and beyond.
Sorry, but there's nothing "obvious" about such a tenuous (and frankly,
contrived-sounding) connection unless one is predisposed to see it. And that
truly is my final word on the topic.
"No good. Hit on head." -Gronk
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