[b-hebrew] RE :Karl randolf

Karl Randolph kwrandolph at email.com
Mon Aug 9 23:51:16 EDT 2004


I made the translation myself.

One of the aspects of laws in the Torah is that there is restraint to punishment. For example, the concept of cutting off a hand for stealing is extreme, rather there is payback with a extra fine, no more. Even the physical punishments are restrained, one tooth for one tooth, not several, one eye for one eye, etc. Thus, when a person is taken away from restraint, especially as in this verse also taken away from judicial justice, indicates injust treatment.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "wattswestmaas" <wattswestmaas at eircom.net>

> Dear Karl,  with regards to Is 53:8 and the translation you gave, where did
> that come from?  I am genuinely interested.
> Thanks  Chris
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 01:47:59 -0500
> From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph at email.com>
> Chris:
> As far as I can tell, this word has a meaning of restraining, as in
> preventing an action or holding back. Also used for a holiday when people
> were to be restrained from doing work.
> When used in Proverbs 30:16 meaning restrained from giving birth = barren.
> Isaiah 53:8 He was taken away from restraint and (correct) judgement, i.e.
> tortured (no restraint to the violent action taken on him) and killed
> unjustly. Psalm 107:39 again the concept is a displeasing restraint that
> makes a people small.
> Here we need to differentiate between a smooth translation, and the Hebrew
> term where from an action or held back is a necessary part of the
> meaning, which has no equivelant in English. Thus a smooth translation may
> use a completely different term.
> You cant accuse me of getting this from modern Israeli Hebrew.
> Karl W. Randolph.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wattswestmaas" <wattswestmaas at eircom.net>
> > Subject:---- Active Participle OTSeR (classified as abstract noun) from
> root
> > ayin-tsadi-resh.  Translated as 'barren' in prov 30:16  and as
> 'oppression'
> > in psalm 107:39 and Is 53:8  I will leave for now.
> >
> > My question is this,  several other words are used to convey the idea of
> > 'oppression' and 'violation' and 'crushed'  I am trying to gain a feel for
> > the idea that the writers wanted to be conveyed, through this particular
> > word.
> >
> > I wonder if a sense of 'Curfew' or 'restraint' might not be the subtle
> idea?
> > (I must admit I have gained this through reading the modern hebrew)
> >
> > Are there any thoughts please??
> >
> > Yours Chris,  ireland..

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