[b-hebrew] RE :Karl randolf

wattswestmaas wattswestmaas at eircom.net
Sat Aug 7 13:15:28 EDT 2004

Dear Karl,  with regards to Is 53:8 and the translation you gave, where did
that come from?  I am genuinely interested.

Thanks  Chris

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 01:47:59 -0500
From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph at email.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ayin-Tsadi-Resh (OTSeR) Act. Part.
To: "Hebrew" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20040807064759.964C81CE303 at ws1-6.us4.outblaze.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


As far as I can tell, this word has a meaning of restraining, as in
preventing an action or holding back. Also used for a holiday when people
were to be restrained from doing work.

When used in Proverbs 30:16 meaning restrained from giving birth = barren.
Isaiah 53:8 He was taken away from restraint and (correct) judgement, i.e.
tortured (no restraint to the violent action taken on him) and killed
unjustly. Psalm 107:39 again the concept is a displeasing restraint that
makes a people small.

Here we need to differentiate between a smooth translation, and the Hebrew
term where from an action or held back is a necessary part of the
meaning, which has no equivelant in English. Thus a smooth translation may
use a completely different term.

You cant accuse me of getting this from modern Israeli Hebrew.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "wattswestmaas" <wattswestmaas at eircom.net>

> Subject:---- Active Participle OTSeR (classified as abstract noun) from
> ayin-tsadi-resh.  Translated as 'barren' in prov 30:16  and as
> in psalm 107:39 and Is 53:8  I will leave for now.
> My question is this,  several other words are used to convey the idea of
> 'oppression' and 'violation' and 'crushed'  I am trying to gain a feel for
> the idea that the writers wanted to be conveyed, through this particular
> word.
> I wonder if a sense of 'Curfew' or 'restraint' might not be the subtle
> (I must admit I have gained this through reading the modern hebrew)
> Are there any thoughts please??
> Yours Chris,  ireland..
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