Psalm 22:16 like a lion they mauled, the emendation-- question

Moshe Shulman mshulman at ix.netcom.com
Mon Sep 16 23:46:45 EDT 2002


At 02:31 PM 9/16/02 -0400, you wrote:
>"Lion" appears two other times in Psalm 22.  Is there any significance to
>the fact that both of the other times (surrounding the questioned verse)
>use the longer form of the word 'FRY"H rather than ':ARIY (as is assumed
>in verse 16)?  In other words (and maybe this is straining), why would
>David alternate between these two words, or is that a common feature of
>passages like this?

Well there are two ways of looking at that:

1. From a text critical POV, the easy answer is that the ending heh was 
just dropped by copyists. Not a hard error to imagine.
2. The heh will add an extra syllable, which may be why it was left out.




>I must state that I really like how you joined the two apparent phrases in
>the passage to eliminate the need for a verb in the second (which should
>have been apparent to me in the first place).
>
>Shalom,
>Jason
>
>P.S. Tzom qal ug'mar khamitah tovah. :-D
>
> > At 07:54 AM 9/15/02 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > It seems that G-d made a serious oversight in that the words of the Tenach
> > were in Hebrew and not in English. He made it so easy for people to become
> > confused.
> >
> > >Shalom b-Hebrew,
> > >Psalm 22:16 - KJB
> > >For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me:
> > >they pierced my hands and my feet.
> > >Psalms 22:16 (www.unboundbible.com)
> > >ybs kxrs kxy vlsvny mdbq mlqvxy vljpr-mvt tsptny.
> >
> > First I would point out that the best Christian (mis)translation is the
> > Douay version which has:
> >
> > "For many dogs have encompassed me: the council of the malignant hath
> > besieged me. They have dug my hands and feet."
> >
> > While there are some problems I see, it is at least consistent in
> > translating KARU according to its theory that it is a verb, and what root
> > it has. It is the only one I have seen that has done that, although the
> > Christian Lexicons that try to support the Christian translation all attest
> > to that begin the correct translation of the root word KVR.
> >
> > The primary problem I have seen in English speakers is a misunderstanding
> > of Hebrew poetic forms. For example the following  with punctuation removed
> > presents no problem:
> >
> > "The council of the malignant hath besieged me like a lion at my hands and
> > feet."
> >
> > Makes perfect  sense. We understand it and the imagery is clear. Now if we
> > add the first clause that appears in the Hebrew poetry we get:
> >
> > "For many dogs have encompassed me. The council of the malignant hath
> > besieged me like a lion at my hands and feet."
> >
> >  From here we can see how the JPS has translated it:
> >
> > "For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me;
> > like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet."
> >
> > Because of the punctuation used (which does not appear in the Hebrew) there
> > is a need to add who the subject is (which was obvious in the Hebrew.)
> >
> > >Psalm 22:16  - JPS-1985
> > >Dogs surround me;  a pack of evil ones close in on me,
> > >like lions (they maul) my hands and feet...
> >
> >
> > The JPS 1985 is not a literal translation, but uses a style which tries to
> > be more explanative, and less of a tool for teaching Biblical Hebrew.
> >
> > >So the "like a", even if it is not innate in karu, seems to be
> > >translated/emendated :-)
> > >similarly in another passage by all translators...
> >
> > As I said, it would have been easier if G-d had taught all those ancient
> > Hebrews English so that we wouldn't need any of those pesky translations.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Moshe Shulman   outreach at messiahtruth.com 718-436-7705
> > Messiah Truth/Judaism's Answer:  http://www.messiahtruth.com/
> > Outreach Judaism:   http://www.outreachjudaism.org/
> > CHASSIDUS.NET - Yoshav Rosh       http://www.chassidus.net
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>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moshe Shulman   outreach at messiahtruth.com 718-436-7705
Messiah Truth/Judaism's Answer:  http://www.messiahtruth.com/
Outreach Judaism:   http://www.outreachjudaism.org/
CHASSIDUS.NET - Yoshav Rosh       http://www.chassidus.net
Chassidus discussion list:        chassidus-subscribe at yahoogroups.com




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