The daughter of Jeftah died?

soren at enteract.com soren at enteract.com
Mon Jun 3 17:30:43 EDT 2002


Since there is no a priori reason why the story of Yiftah could not be true (no 
snakes speak to women and no donkeys to men), neither you nor I have any real 
basis for thinking it historical or otherwise.  Perhaps someday someone will 
find a pre-exilic text.  All we can say is that a post-exilic author (since the 
Exile is mentioned in Judges--see the story of Dan) presents these as 
historical stories.  Beyond that, one must try to find reasons why s/he would 
make these sotries up out of whole cloth



Quoting "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu>:

> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: soren at enteract.com [mailto:soren at enteract.com]
> > Sent: Mon, June 03, 2002 5:13 PM
> > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > Cc: Biblical Hebrew
> > Subject: RE: The daughter of Jeftah died?
> >
> >
> > I don't know if Liz has confused Daniel Werlin but she has
> > certainly confused
> > me.  The story of Yiftah is not a random story, it is one of
> > several stores
> > brought together by a D narrator weho wished to show (the
> > editor does explain
> > his/her motives in the text) that when the Israelites
> > abandoned Yahweah, this
> > had ill consequences (foreign rule) but that Yahweh did not
> > fully abandon His
> > people but raised up great leaders to redeem them spiritually
> > and physically.
> > I don't know, and I doubt if it will ever be known, which, if
> > any, of these
> > stories were in written form before our editor or what thosew
> > written forms
> > were.
> >
> > I suspect what is bothering Liz is the assumption that
> > sacrificing a child is
> > against Biblical Israaelite religion.
> You must have me mixed up with someone else.
> I don't think the story is historical, and I don't have anything
> bothering me. I'm trying to get people to realize that
> their statements carry implications, that assumptions
> are embedded which, upon closer examination, may not
> pan out.
> When you say "brought together" by  a D narrator,
> who was that D-narrator, when did he live, how did
> he know the story?
> I sense the anger these questions arouse; we tend to
> get angry when we run up against questions which
> challenge the bedrock of our faith, of who we are as people.
> 
> Liz
> 
>  The trouble is that while that
> > assumption may be comforting to us (how many of us woule
> > sacrifice our only
> > child even at his/her worst?), there is no particular support
> > for it.  THere is
> > one child sacrifice story in Genesis, there is another in
> > Kings (which gets
> > mentioned in Joshua) and there is Ezekial's comment (I think
> > chapter 22 but I
> > don't have any texts before me) quoting Yahwah as saying that
> > he gave bad laws
> > to Israel by commanding them to sacrifice their first-born.
> > THe editor
> > includes this story because it shows Yiftah's relgious virtue
> > (and thus his
> > fitness to lead Israel) as he keep his vow even when it led
> > in a direction he
> > had not suspected.
> >
> >                                                     Steve Oren
> >
> > Quoting "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu>:
> >
> > > If you argue that this describes an histoical event, then
> > > you must have some theory in mind describing how the
> > > event happened to be written down and received into
> > > the biblical corpus.
> > > What is that theory that you have?
> > > Liz Fried
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Daniel Walin [mailto:danserve4x at yahoo.com]
> > > > Sent: Mon, June 03, 2002 4:31 PM
> > > > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > > > Subject: RE: The daughter of Jeftah died?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu> wrote:
> > > > > If this is historical, what transmission
> > > > > theory do you propose to account for it's inclusion
> > > > > in the biblical corpus?
> > > > > Liz Fried
> > > >
> > > > What do you mean by the term "transmission theory?"
> > > >
> > > > Daniel Walin
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
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> > > >
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