c.ar li

Peter Kirk Peter_R_Kirk at hotmail.com
Sun Dec 1 07:14:07 EST 2002


OK, I see your point that the matter is not as simple as I thought,
though I don't have time to look at the evidence in detail just now. So
I accept that CAR could be a verb. But it is also clearly attested as a
noun. So the form BAC.AR is either a very rare (though not unattested)
use of B- and the article with a finite verb, i.e. the article as a
relative pronoun, or it is a perfectly normal construction with a noun.
Why prefer the rare construction to the regular one?

Peter Kirk
peter.r.kirk at ntlworld.com
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~peterkirk/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. L. [mailto:lyosovs at cityline.ru]
> Sent: 01 December 2002 02:12
> To: Biblical Hebrew
> Subject: [b-hebrew] RE: c.ar li
> 
>   Yes,  BDB has it in a very straightforward way. On p.862b (c.rr I B.
> intrans.) the only Perf. form it  lists  is 3fs c.a:ra: Is 28:20. It
is
> definitely a perf.  not an adjective - because of  perf. in the first
> colon
> and also because of penult stress. But BDB does not seem to list Jud
11:7,
> 1
> S 13:6, 1 S 28:15, 2S 1:26, 2S  24:14, Ps 31:10, 69:18, Thr 1:20, 1
Chr
> 21:13 anywhere: neither under noun/adj. c.ar nor under verb c.rr. (In
Ps
> 59:17, 102:3 BDD has nouns.) HALAT lists all these contexts as
> intransitive
> perfects of c.rr. Js 49:20 seems to be disputed.
> Now c.a:rar in Hos 4:19 and Prov 30:4 is an active verb (from the
point of
> view of both meaning and pattern),  while a geminated verb that has
> transitive as well as intransitive uses might well have both patterns
> (although I am unable to adduce another example).
>    If one compares Gen 32:8 wayyec.er lo 'he became distresses' with
Jud
> 11:7 ka`$er c.ar la:kem ‘when you are in trouble’ one is inclined to
think
> that both predicates are verbal (if we do not want to introduce a
position
> of neutralisation in our Hebrew  Grammar for stative perf. 3ms ~
adjective
> ms; I hope in most cases the ambiguity can be resolved on the basis of
> paradigmatic relations).
>    Now bac.c.ar li in Ps 18:7 and parallels seems to be syntactically
> equivalent to ka`$er c.ar la:kem (b+ha ~ k+`a$er if we take into
account
> the
> uses of the article as a relative pronoun before perf. listed in GK
138i).
>   Serge Lyosov
> 
> -----Èñõîäíîå ñîîáùåíèå-----
> Îò: Peter Kirk <Peter_R_Kirk at hotmail.com>
> Êîìó: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew at franklin.metalab.unc.edu>
> Äàòà: Saturday, November 30, 2002 4:47 AM
> Òåìà: [b-hebrew] RE: c.ar li
> 
> 
> >I don't see the problem. What is wrong with BDB's parsing of CAR as a
> >noun? This is well attested, BDB notes 27 occurrences as a noun plus
6
> >as an adjective, in 15 of which the one in distress is indicated by
L-.
> >Also the attested perfect form of the verb CRR is not CAR but CFRAR,
Hos
> >4:19 and Prov 30:4.
> >
> >Peter Kirk
> >peter.r.kirk at ntlworld.com
> >http://web.onetel.net.uk/~peterkirk/
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: S. L. [mailto:lyosovs at cityline.ru]
> >Sent: 29 November 2002 07:39
> >To: Biblical Hebrew
> >Subject: [b-hebrew] c.ar li
> >
> > Dear list,
> >I have hard times parsing Ps 18:7 bac.c.ar li (c. = tsade). BDB 865a
> >has it as a noun 'straits, distress': 'in my distress'. HALAT 990b
has
> >it as Perf. 3ms of c.rr II 'ist in Not', i.e. as an impersonal verb.
> >In view of Gen 32:8 wayyec.er lo 'he became distresses' and Ruth 1:13
> >'ki mar li mikkem' + Jer 4:18 'ki mar' 'for it is bitter' etc. I
would
> >take bac.c.ar li for a verbal phrase 'when I was distressed', but how
to
> >explain the gemination of tsade? GK 138i is rather reluctant to admit
-
> >without a compulsory reason - the article as relative pronoun on
> >perfects, and it does not list Ps 18:7 among the examples.
> > The very same 'bac.c.ar li' reappears in Ps 66:14. In Pss 59: 17 and
> >102:3 it is written 'byom c.ar li'. To my mind (and against BDB)
> >here 'byom' does introduce a Perf. 'c.ar', serving as a relative
> >pronoun, cf. Lev 7:35; Deut 4:15; 2 Sam 22:1.
> > Does anybody have suggestions?
> > Serge Lyosov
> >---
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