Psalm 12:5-7: J. Safren

Theodore Mann theomann at earthlink.net
Sat Feb 3 08:33:01 EST 2001


I had no intention of engaging in a discussion of 
"inerrancy... or doctrine of Scripture."  I have been a member of the 
b-Greek list for several years, and I know better.  I only mentioned the 
preservation of scripture issue (in passing, you might note) to identify 
the thrust of the article from which I extracted the quote, although I suppose 
it wasn't really necessary to do so.  It was the translation of the 
passage, and that only, that interested me.  Apologies if anyone thought 
otherwise.

 

Best.

 

Ted


----- Original Message ----- 

From: Jonathan D. 
Safren  

To: Biblical Hebrew ;Dan Wagner 
Cc: Theodore H. Mann 

Sent: 2/3/2001 2:03:48 AM 

Subject: Re: Psalm 12:5-7





Dan Wagner wrote:

  Yes, although you'll find that many on this list have no concern 
for

  inerrancy, preservation, or any doctrine of Scripture--which this 
psalm is

  sometimes asserted to relate to.

 

This list is not concerned with the "inerrancy...or doctrine of 
Scripture"

but, in the narrower sense, with the language of the Tanakh. and, in 
the

wider sense with the Bible against its Ancient Near Eastern background, 
the

origins and development of biblical literature, the interpretation of 
words,

verses, passages etc. in context.

If we were all to introduce our belief systems into discussion on this 
list,

we would have no room for scholarly discourse, only for disputation.

If you are disappointed that "many on this list have no concern for

inerrancy, preservation, or any doctrine of Scripture", then I suggest 
you

join another list.

Jonathan D. Safren

Chairman

Dept. of Biblical Studies

Beit Berl College

44905 Israel

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dan Wagner" 

To: "Biblical Hebrew"  b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu  

Cc: "'Theodore H. Mann'"  theomann at earthlink.net  

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 12:27 AM

Subject: RE: Psalm 12:5-7

 

 

    -----Original Message-----

    From: Theodore H. Mann [mailto:theomann at earthlink.net ]

    Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 17:04

    To: Biblical Hebrew

    Subject: Psalm 12:5-7

   

   

    Greetings all.

   

       I just joined the list and this is my 
first post; I hope it's

    reasonably intelligent.

  concerns the Hebrew text,

  so it is a good one.

 

       Regarding Ps.12:5-7, I recently read the 
following statement in a

    locally generated theological journal.  This was in 
reference to the

    providential preservation of the Bible issue:

   

    "... it is... probable that verse 7 ('Thou shall keep 
them...

    thou shalt

    preserve them') is not... referring to 'the words of the

    Lord' in verse 6.

     The Hebrew term for 'them' (twice in v. 7) is 
masculine,

    while the term

    for 'words' is feminine.

 

  Correct, _)eMAROTH_ is fem. plural in v. 7[6], but in verse 8[7] 
the

suffix

  on _$MR_ (the first verb) is masc. plural, and the second verb 
for

  "guard/keep" _NCR_ has the masc. singular suffix (i.e., the object of 
the

  verb). So literally, we should translate "You, Yahweh, will keep 
them

[MP];

  You will guard him [MS] from this generation forever." It does not 
refer

to

  the fem. "words." Rather, it references

  (1.) the masc. pl. "poor ones," "afflicted ones," in v. 6[5]   
"faithful

  ones" in v. 2[1], and also

  (2.) David, the "loyal/godly one" _XASID_ of verse 1-2[1].

 

  I think it's interesting (at least to my theology) that the 
singular

  reference to David, the king, and the plural of those of his kingdom 
are

  equated by the parallelism. In any case, God preserves His *people* 
in

this

  passage which teaches nothing with reference to the preservation 
of

  Scripture.

 

  Actually, there is no text in the Bible (OT or NT) that *intends* 
to

  directly teach a doctrine of preservation of manuscripts or 
documents

  (though there are some general implications). This gives a 
certain

  liberty--and a certain responsibility--regarding textual criticism 
(that

  some want to resist). I'd be happy to give you my view of that, 
off-list,

if

  you're interested.

 

  Dan Wagner

 

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Dr. Theodore Mann

theomann at earthlink.net 

http://home.earthlink.net/~theomann 
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