Ending on a vowel

Fred Putnam fputnam at biblical.edu
Mon Dec 17 10:21:13 EST 2001


Date sent:      	Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:00:06 -0500
Subject:        	b-hebrew digest: December 14, 2001
To:             	"b-hebrew digest recipients" <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
From:           	"Biblical Hebrew digest" <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Send reply to:  	"Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>

Although ktb, &pt, et al. are potential paradigm verbs, I have begun using m$l 
for several reasons.

1. It is strong (no gutturals, I-y/w, &c.), and is not I-sibilant, so that its forms 
are consistent.

2. It has no bgd-kpt letters, so dagesh lene does not occur in, e.g., G yiqtol 
[to use a name!]. Many students have found the appearance/non-appearance 
of the dagesh lene confusing, especially since they tend to depend on the 
dagesh in the second radical to identify the D-stems.

3. It occurs relatively frequently (99x).

Any other candidates?

Fred Putnam


> B-HEBREW Digest for Friday, December 14, 2001.
> 
> 1. RE: Genesis 1:6
> 2. Exodus Fusion/Conflation of EBII-IAII ?
> 3. Re: Ending on a vowel?
> 4. SPECIAL NOTICE: Werkgroep Informatica Launches Pilot Web Project
> 5. SV: Ending on a vowel?
> 6. RE: Ending on a vowel?
> 7. Exodus and Archeology
> 8. Re: Exodus and Archeology
> 9. Fw: exodus corrected site
> 10. qatal vs. katab
> 11. Re: qatal vs. katab
> 12. Channukah - Latkes and a new Dreidle song
> 13. Re: Channukah - Latkes and a new Dreidle song
> 14. RE: qatal vs. katab
> 15. RE: Various Hebrew Bible Versions and Manuscripts?
> 16. Shabbat Shalom and Chag Sameach
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: RE: Genesis 1:6
> From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk at concentric.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:40:14 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 1
> 
> I asked my daughter, in 11th grade Yeshiva high school - "What is the 
> root of 'Mavdil', 'Hivdil', etc.?  Is it B D L?  She also didn't 
> remember but thought it was not B D L.  I asked her why not, and she 
> said, "It just doesn't sound right".  I am really going to look for 
> that book in my deceased father's library, this Sunday.
> 
> Shoshanna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That may have something to do with it (allowing the corrections to the picture
> that she gave in her response), but the reason I brought up the lack of a G
> (Qal) stem for this root is that it seems to me that a speaker who has
> internalized the language will probably be a lot better at recognizing
> connections between verb forms that actually exist. Even though she has learned
> the root/stem system, there is no reason to learn a verb form that does not
> exist; hence, the relationship is not nearly as obvious. It may seem like a
> no-brainer that the root of mavdil is BDL, since none of the consonants is
> likely to go anywhere; but If I recall correctly, even the comparative evidence
> is usually attested in the C stem only.
> 
> I should add that the original inquiry seemed to imply that BDL means
> something by itself. (Something like, "What's the difference between BDL and
> MBDL?") Since there is no attested G-stem verb badal or D-stem biddel, there is
> no verb that can be called simply BDL. (Both the N stem and the C stem add
> prefixes in their various forms.)
> 
> Trevor Peterson
> CUA/Semitics
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Exodus Fusion/Conflation of EBII-IAII ?
> From: "Walter Mattfeld" <mattfeld at mail.pjsnet.com>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:58:45 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 2
> 
> In an earlier posting to this List I noted that "my research" on the Exodus
> narratives suggested to me that elements or strands within the biblical
> scenarios appeared to be drawn from various archaeological eras, the Early
> Bronze II to Iron II.  A recent "re-read" of Finkelstein and Silberman, suggests
> that they too "appear" to share my observation-
> 
> "So where does this leave us ? Can we say that the Exodus, the wandering,
> and -most important of all- the giving of the Law on Sinai do not possess
> even a kernel of truth ? So many historical and geographical elements from
> SO MANY PERIODS MAY HAVE BEEN EMBEDDED IN THE EXODUS STORY that it is hard
> to decide on a single unique period in which something like it might have
> occurred. There is the timeless rhythm of migrations to Egypt in antquity.
> There is the specific incident of the Hyksos domination of the delta in the
> Middle Bronze Age.  There are the suggestive parallels to elements of the
> Ramesside era relating to Egypt -together with the first mention of Israel (in
> Canaan, not Egypt)...The Bible may reflect New Kingdom reality, but it just
> might as well reflect later conditions in the Iron Age, closer to when the
> Exodus narrative was put in writing. And that is precisely what the Egyptologist
> Donald Redford has suggested. The most evocative and consistent geographical
> details of the Exodus story come from the seventh century BCE..." (p.65, "Did
> the Exodus Happen ?" Israel Finkelstein & Neil Asher Silberman. The Bible
> Unearthed, Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of its
> Sacred Texts. New York. The Free Press. 2001.  ISBN 0-684-86912-8)
> 
> ****Copy of an earlier Posting ****
> 
> I have argued that Ahmose I, founder of the New Kingdom and the 18th dynasty is
> the Pharaoh of the Exodus, based upon the biblical chronology preserved in
> Judges and Samuel of nearly 600 years elapsing from the Exodus to Solomon's
> building of the Temple in his 4th year (ca. 966 BCE + 600 = 1566 BCE, in the
> reign of Ahmose I). Ahmose's expulsion of the Hyksos is what is being
> remembered.
> 
> But, I also acknowledge that the Exodus narratives possess various strands
> from differing periods of time, Early Bronze II to Iron II, and thus it is
> my understanding that Aardsma has correctly identified the fallen walls of
> Early Bronze Jericho as one of the strands. Kitchen and Hoffmeier have
> correctly identified the mention of Ramesses in the narratives as another
> strand of the days of Ramesses II or later. MacDonald has correctly
> identified the sitz im leben of the narratives as the Late Iron II period
> based on his excavations in Transjordan. Bimson and Wood have correctly
> identified the fall of Jericho in MBIIC as best fitting the burning of
> Jericho by Joshua.  ALL OF  THESE  SCHOLARS HAVE EACH CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED
> THE VARIOUS STRANDS.  Their collective failure however, was that they failed to
> realize that these strands, found in various archaeological eras, Early Bronze
> to Late Iron II, are indicative of a fusion and conflation of events over a
> period 1500 years, being compressed into the 16th/15th century BCE. Cf. my
> article at the following url
> http://www.bibleorigins.net/ExodusTimnaSerabitelKhadim.html
> 
> Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
> Walldorf by Heidelberg
> Baden-Wurttemburg, Germany
> www.bibleorigins.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Re: Ending on a vowel?
> From: "Jonathan D. Safren" <yonsaf at beitberl.ac.il>
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:27:41 +0200
> X-Message-Number: 3
> 
> Somehow I am bothered by the use of the paradigm verb qatal (kill) in this
> day and age. Wouldn't katab (write) or $pt (judge, rule, save) be more
> suitable for scholars specializing in Hebrew Bible?
> What was good for Gesenius is not necessarily good for us.
> Sincerely,
> Jonathan D. Safren
> Dept. of Biblical Studies
> Beit Berl College
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Søren Holst" <sh at teol.ku.dk>
> To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:29 AM
> Subject: SV: Ending on a vowel?
> 
> 
> > How abot a perfectly ordinary 2nd person masc. sing. perfect verb like
> > qatalta?
> >
> > Soren, Cph
> >
> > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > > Fra: Peter Kirk [SMTP:Peter_Kirk at sil.org]
> > > Sendt: 12. december 2001 19:18
> > > Til: Biblical Hebrew
> > > Emne: RE: Ending on a vowel?
> > >
> > > Yes. But the only permitted word final vowel point (apart from a silent
> > > shewa in a kaph or on a final consonant cluster) is qamets, and then
> only
> > > following kaph and nun.
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [yonsaf at beitberl.ac.il]
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: SPECIAL NOTICE: Werkgroep Informatica Launches Pilot Web Project
> From: "M & E Anstey" <anstey at raketnet.nl>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:23:10 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 4
> 
> Dear Sir/Madam,
> 
> The Werkgroep Informatica of the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam is pleased to
> announce the launch of its pilot web project, The Interactive Hebrew Text
> Project, at
> 
>     http://www.th.vu.nl/~wiweb/index.htm
> 
> (You can also find it under the Theology Webpage (http://www.th.vu.nl/)
> under
> Onderzoek, Werkgroep Informatica.)
> 
> This is a pilot project and so only 5 chapters of the Old Testament are
> presented (the book of Jonah and Duet. 4), and only comments in Dutch are
> available for Deuteronony 4.
> 
> Due to the complexities of displaying interactive Hebrew on the web, the
> site
> will only work under Windows 95 (98 or above is better) with the browser
> Internet Explorer 4 (5 or above is better). It will not work under Netscape or
> other operating systems. The site provides a test to see how your system matches
> our minimum requirements at http://www.th.vu.nl/~wiweb/html/test.htm.
> 
> ******  The pilot project has been possible due to the generous funding of
> the
> Vrije Universiteit. If you think the overall idea and purpose of the site is
> worth supporting, please fill in the response form
> (http://www.th.vu.nl/~wiweb/html/feedback.htm) once you have viewed the site, as
> your responses will be important in the event of future funding proposals to
> expand the site to include many more chapters of the Hebrew bible and greater
> cross-platform, cross-browser support. IF YOU HOLD AN ACADEMIC POSITION OR A
> POSITION WITHIN THE COMPUTING INDUSTRY WE WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE A FORMAL
> LETTER OF SUPPORT FOR THE FURTHER DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SITE *******
> 
> You can mail us at:
> 
> Werkgroep Informatica
> Faculteit der Godgeleerdheid
> Vrije Universiteit
> De Boelelaan 1105
> 1081 HV  AMSTERDAM
> The Netherlands
> 
> You can also directly email the webmaster at wiweb at th.vu.nl
> 
> We hope the site will be of particular interest to Hebraists, translators,
> and students of Hebrew and Hebrew discourse.
> 
> With regards
> 
> Matthew P. Anstey, B.Th., M.C.S.
> Webmaster, Werkgroep Informatica Interactive Hebrew Text Project
> Werkgroep Informatica
> Ph.D. candidate
> Faculteit der Godgeleerdheid
> anstey at postmark.net
> 
> 13 December 2001
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: SV: Ending on a vowel?
> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Holst?= <sh at teol.ku.dk>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:53:09 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 5
> 
> well, I'm all in favour of katab, since it's what the Danish standard
> Biblical Hebrew grammar uses anyway - I was  just trying to adapt to the
> standard :-)
> 
> merry holy days, everybody
> Soren, Cph
> 
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra:	Jonathan D. Safren [SMTP:yonsaf at beitberl.ac.il]
> > Sendt:	13. december 2001 11:28
> > Til:	S?ren Holst; Biblical Hebrew
> > Emne:	Re: Ending on a vowel?
> > 
> > Somehow I am bothered by the use of the paradigm verb qatal (kill) in this day
> > and age. Wouldn't katab (write) or $pt (judge, rule, save) be more suitable
> > for scholars specializing in Hebrew Bible? What was good for Gesenius is not
> > necessarily good for us. Sincerely, Jonathan D. Safren Dept. of Biblical
> > Studies Beit Berl College
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: RE: Ending on a vowel?
> From: "Trevor & Julie Peterson" <06peterson at cua.edu>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:30:42 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 6
> 
> I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to change the paradigmatic root in actual
> paradigms, but the real problem would be where words like yiqtol, wayyiqtol,
> etc. have become technical terms to describe the tense-forms. There are still
> plenty of people using terms like perfect and imperfect; but for those who have
> decided that a formal label is preferable to a semantic one (especially given
> the divergence of opinion on the significance of the BH tense-forms), I would
> think it an exercise in futility to try to replace such terms with something
> like wayyi$pot.
> 
> I'm not saying I like using qatal--just questioning the likelihood of
> changing it.
> 
> Trevor
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jonathan D. Safren [mailto:yonsaf at beitberl.ac.il]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 5:28 AM
> > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > Subject: Re: Ending on a vowel?
> >
> >
> > Somehow I am bothered by the use of the paradigm verb qatal (kill) in this day
> > and age. Wouldn't katab (write) or $pt (judge, rule, save) be more suitable
> > for scholars specializing in Hebrew Bible? What was good for Gesenius is not
> > necessarily good for us. Sincerely, Jonathan D. Safren Dept. of Biblical
> > Studies Beit Berl College
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Søren Holst" <sh at teol.ku.dk>
> > To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:29 AM
> > Subject: SV: Ending on a vowel?
> >
> >
> > > How abot a perfectly ordinary 2nd person masc. sing. perfect verb like
> > > qatalta?
> > >
> > > Soren, Cph
> > >
> > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > > > Fra: Peter Kirk [SMTP:Peter_Kirk at sil.org]
> > > > Sendt: 12. december 2001 19:18
> > > > Til: Biblical Hebrew
> > > > Emne: RE: Ending on a vowel?
> > > >
> > > > Yes. But the only permitted word final vowel point (apart
> > from a silent
> > > > shewa in a kaph or on a final consonant cluster) is qamets, and then
> > only
> > > > following kaph and nun.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [yonsaf at beitberl.ac.il]
> > > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [06peterson at cua.edu]
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Exodus and Archeology
> From: "Christine Bass" <christinebass at home.com>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:31:32 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 7
> 
> For those interested in reading on exodus, archeology and ideology:
> 
> http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Archaeology_and_the_Bible_-_Pa
> rt_2.asp
> 
> Blessings,
> Christine Bass
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Re: Exodus and Archeology
> From: "Christine Bass" <christinebass at home.com>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:50:59 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 8
> 
> http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Archaeology_and_the_Bible_-_Pa
> rt_2.asp
> 
> Try this one.......
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christine Bass" <christinebass at home.com>
> To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 7:31 AM
> Subject: Exodus and Archeology
> 
> 
> > For those interested in reading on exodus, archeology and ideology:
> >
> >
> http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Archaeology_and_the_Bible_-_Pa >
> rt_2.asp > > Blessings, > Christine Bass > > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Fw: exodus corrected site
> From: "Christine Bass" <christinebass at home.com>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:00:24 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 9
> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C18475.62AB0620
> Content-Type: text/plain;
>  charset="Windows-1252"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Archaeology_and_the_Bible_-=
> _Part_2.asp
> 
> 
> Sorry, the site has not come across in one line to get to the article, =
> only the main page.
> 
> If this is still the main page,
> click on the left corner blue box marked "society and work"
> then the red box marked "science and medicine"
> and last the article listed as "Archeology and the Bible".....
> 
> It is worth it.....trust me.
> 
> 
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C18475.62AB0620
> Content-Type: text/html;
>  charset="Windows-1252"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Dwindows-1252">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#d2ffd2>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
> href=3D"http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Archaeology_and_the=
> _Bible_-_Part_2.asp">http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Archae=
> ology_and_the_Bible_-_Part_2.asp</A></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry, the site&nbsp;has not&nbsp;come =
> across in=20
> one line to get to the article, only the main page.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If this is still the main =
> page,</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>click on the left corner blue box =
> marked "society=20
> and work"</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>then the red box marked "science and=20
> medicine"</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and last the article listed as =
> "Archeology and the=20
> Bible".....</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is worth it.....trust =
> me.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C18475.62AB0620--
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: qatal vs. katab
> From: Christian Hoffmann <christian.hoffmann at wsl.ch>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:28:27 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 10
> 
> Dear haverim,
> 
> Not so long we discussed the choice of qatal as the paradigmatic stem for
> Hebrew verb grammar. We went through all the possible combinations, sorting out
> unwanted consonants, like
> 
> aleph, he, waw, khet, yod, ayin, resh: weak letters -> weak stems, rarely
> regular
> beth, kaph, pe: change of hardness with veth, khaph, fe
> mem: is also a prefix
> nun, taw: occur in weak stems
> 
> As a result, letters like
> 
> gimel, dalet, zayin, tet, lamed, samekh, tsade, qoph, sin, shin.
> 
> will remain. qatal is one possible combination. I don't remember which else
> seemed attractive.
> 
> Does anybody know a written source for this kind of reasoning?
> 
> Shalom
> --christian
> 
> 
> Dr.sc.math.Christian W. Hoffmann
> Mathematics and Statistical Computing
> Landscape Modeling and Web Applications
> Swiss Federal Research Institute WSL 
> Zuercherstrasse 111
> CH-8903 Birmensdorf, Switzerland
> phone: ++41-1-739 22 77    fax: ++41-1-739 22 15
> e-mail: christian.hoffmann_at_wsl.ch__prevent_spamming
> www: http://www.wsl.ch/staff/christian.hoffmann/
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Re: qatal vs. katab
> From: "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" <mauros at iol.ie>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:02:57 +0000
> X-Message-Number: 11
> 
> Apart from the "heavyweight" reference grammars such as Gesenius, or the=20
> 2-volume : Jouon, Paul, and Takamitsu Muraoka. A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew.
> Vol.=20 14/I. Orthography and Phonetics: Morphology. Vol. 14/II. Syntax:
> Paradigms and Indices. . Subsidia Biblica. Rome: Pontifical Biblical Institute
> 1991.
> 
> I would suggest:
> 
> A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar
> Christo H.J. van der Merwe
> Jackie A. Naud=E9
> Jan H. Kroeze
> Biblical Languages 3: Hebrew
> 
> which is available in printed form from Sheffield Academic Press, or from=20
> Logos in a most useful electronic form ( see www.logos.com )
> 
> At 15:28 14/12/01, Christian Hoffmann wrote:
> 
> >Dear haverim,
> >
> >Not so long we discussed the choice of qatal as the paradigmatic stem for
> >Hebrew verb grammar. We went through all the possible combinations, sorting out
> >unwanted consonants, like
> >
> >aleph, he, waw, khet, yod, ayin, resh: weak letters -> weak stems, rarely
> >regular
> >beth, kaph, pe: change of hardness with veth, khaph, fe
> >mem: is also a prefix
> >nun, taw: occur in weak stems
> >
> >As a result, letters like
> >
> >gimel, dalet, zayin, tet, lamed, samekh, tsade, qoph, sin, shin.
> >
> >will remain. qatal is one possible combination. I don't remember which else
> >seemed attractive.
> >
> >Does anybody know a written source for this kind of reasoning?
> >
> >Shalom
> >--christian
> >
> >
> >Dr.sc.math.Christian W. Hoffmann
> >Mathematics and Statistical Computing
> >Landscape Modeling and Web Applications
> >Swiss Federal Research Institute WSL
> >Zuercherstrasse 111
> >CH-8903 Birmensdorf, Switzerland
> >phone: ++41-1-739 22 77    fax: ++41-1-739 22 15
> >e-mail: christian.hoffmann_at_wsl.ch__prevent_spamming
> >www: http://www.wsl.ch/staff/christian.hoffmann/
> >
> >
> >---
> >You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [mauros at iol.ie]
> >To unsubscribe, forward this message to=20
> >$subst('Email.Unsub')
> >To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> 
> Maurice A. O'Sullivan  [ Bray, Ireland ]
> mauros at iol.ie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Channukah - Latkes and a new Dreidle song
> From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk at concentric.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:17:25 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 12
> 
> >
> >IT WAS HANUKKAH AND THE PEOPLE IN THE TINY
> >VILLAGE WERE IN FEAR OF NOT HAVING ANY LATKES BECAUSE
> >THEY HAD RUN OUT OF FLOUR.
> >RUDOLPH THE RABBI WAS CALLED UPON TO HELP SOLVE
> >THE PROBLEM.
> >
> >HE SAID, "DON'T WORRY, YOU CAN SUBSTITUTE
> >MATZO MEAL FOR THE FLOUR
> >AND THE LATKES WILL BE JUST AS DELICIOUS!"
> >
> >ROSALIE LOOKED TO HER HUSBAND AND SAID, "MORTY,
> >YOU THINK IT'LL WORK?"
> >
> >AND MORTY REPLIED,  "OF COURSE! ... EVERYBODY
> >KNOWS...  RUDOLPH, THE REB, KNOWS GRAIN, DEAR!"
> 
> 
> A NEW DREIDLE SONG:
> 
>          I
> 
> I have a little dreidle            
> I made this one from clay
> I thought I'd make another
> And try it a different way.
> 
>          II
> 
> I took a piece of cardboard
> Some staples and the pen
> But whey I try to use it
> It simply would not spin
> 
>          Chorus
> 
> Oh, dreidle, dreidle, dreidle              
> How come you will not spin             
> I think I'll make another
> And try my luck again.
> 
> 
> 
>          III
> 
> I took a piece of metal
> and made one in the shop,
> I tell you then what happened
> When that dreidle dropped
> 
>          Chorus
> 
> Oh, dreidle, dreidle, dreidle
> It fell upon my toe
> and when they take my cast off
> I won't use it any more.
> 
>          IV
> 
> I made one out of cotton
> It was much fun to play
> I left the window open
> My dreidle flew away
> 
> 
>          Chorus
> 
> Oh, dreidle, dreidle, dreidle
> I thought I'd be so bright,
> I think I'll make another
> This time I'll get it right
> 
> 
> 
>          V
> 
> I made one out of ice-cream
> It was so nice and sweet
> But one day I was hungry
> My dreidle I did eat
> 
>          Chorus
> 
> Oh, dreidle, dreidle, dreidle
> I better stick with clay
> And when it's dry and ready
> My dreidle I shall play!
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Re: Channukah - Latkes and a new Dreidle song
> From: "Dave Washburn" <dwashbur at nyx.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:02:43 -0700
> X-Message-Number: 13
> 
> > >
> > >IT WAS HANUKKAH AND THE PEOPLE IN THE TINY
> > >VILLAGE WERE IN FEAR OF NOT HAVING ANY LATKES BECAUSE
> > >THEY HAD RUN OUT OF FLOUR.
> > >RUDOLPH THE RABBI WAS CALLED UPON TO HELP SOLVE
> > >THE PROBLEM.
> > >
> > >HE SAID, "DON'T WORRY, YOU CAN SUBSTITUTE
> > >MATZO MEAL FOR THE FLOUR
> > >AND THE LATKES WILL BE JUST AS DELICIOUS!"
> > >
> > >ROSALIE LOOKED TO HER HUSBAND AND SAID, "MORTY,
> > >YOU THINK IT'LL WORK?"
> > >
> > >AND MORTY REPLIED,  "OF COURSE! ... EVERYBODY
> > >KNOWS...  RUDOLPH, THE REB, KNOWS GRAIN, DEAR!"
> > 
> OUCH!!! :-)  [I won't mention the fact that the "dreadful pun" is my 
> favorite kind of joke...]
> Dave Washburn
> http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> This time, like all times, is a very good one if we but know what to 
> do with it.
>                   -Emerson
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: RE: qatal vs. katab
> From: "Penner" <pennerkm at mcmaster.ca>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:46:50 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 14
> 
> > As a result, letters like
> > 
> > gimel, dalet, zayin, tet, lamed, samekh, tsade, qoph, sin, shin.
> > 
> > will remain. qatal is one possible combination. I don't 
> > remember which else seemed attractive.
> 
> And even of these few remaining consonants, the sibilants (samekh,
> tsade, sin, shin) cause irregularities as the first consonant of a root
> in the Ht binyan. So $PT is out.
> In addition, we'd want the root to be attested in as many binyanim as
> possible (PQD is the most regular root with 7), and preferably with its
> most basic meaning in Qal (unlike DBR), and with active (not stative)
> meaning (unlike KBD and QD$), and reasonably common.
> In short, there is no perfectly suitable root, although the least
> problematic seem to me DBR KBD PQD QD$ RDP.
> 
> Ken Penner, M.C.S. (Regent College), M.A. (McMaster)
> Ph.D. Student, Religious Studies, 
> Biblical Field (Early Judaism major)
> McMaster University
> Hamilton, Canada
> pennerkm at mcmaster.ca
> Vocabulary Memorisation Software: http://sensoft.nav.to
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: RE: Various Hebrew Bible Versions and Manuscripts?
> From: "Peter Kirk" <Peter_Kirk at sil.org>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:12:31 -0000
> X-Message-Number: 15
> 
> Philip and others,
> 
> You might also be interested in the following from the Oxford Text Archive,
> http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/ and search for "Old Testament" in the author field:
> 
>  Text 1119  Show full details
> 
> The Masoretic text of the Old Testament aligned with the Greek text of the
> Septuagint [Electronic resource]
> Format : Plain text
> Source : Source of data: Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia quae antea
> cooperantibus A. Alt, O. Eissfeldt, P. Kahle ediderat R. Kittel / editio
> funditus renovata, adjuvantibus H. Bardtke ... [et al.] cooperantibus H.P.
> Ruger et J. Ziegler ; ediderunt K. Elliger et W. Rudolph ; textum
> Masoreticum curavit H.P. Ruger, Masoram elaboravit G.E. Weil. - Stuttgart :
> Deutsche Bibelstiftung, 1977. - Prolegomena in German, English, French, Spanish
> and Latin. - Added title and text in Hebrew: Torah, Neviim u-Khetuvim. - ISBN
> 3-43805218-0. ; and: Septuaguinta : id est, Vetus Testamentum Graecae iuxta LXX
> interpretes / edidit Alfred Rahlfs. - Stuttgart : Wurttembergische Bibelanstalt,
> 1935. - 2 v. - Text in Greek, pref. and introd. in German, English and Latin. -
> Contents: Vol. 1. Leges et historiae - v. 2. Libri poetici et prophetici. Size :
> 44 files : ca. 16.6 megabytes Languages : Greek, Ancient Hebrew Distribution :
> Freely available for non-commercial use provided that this header is included in
> its entirety with any copy distributed Transcriber : Computer Assisted Tools for
> Septuagint Studies (Project)
> 
> Peter Kirk
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Philip Engmann [mailto:philipengmann at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: 08 December 2001 22:59
> > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > Subject: Various Hebrew Bible Versions and Manuscripts?
> >
> >
> > Dear Listees,
> >
> > I am looking for all the Old Testament Hebrew Bible
> > Versions online and all the Old Testament Hebrew
> > Manuscripts online.
> >
> > Can anyone help me?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Philip Engmann
> > OT MPhil Student
> >
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Shabbat Shalom and Chag Sameach
> From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk at concentric.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:38:26 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 16
> 
> As Shabbat descends upon us here in the US Northeast, I'm sending 
> this now instead of on Shabbat.  Not humor, but a beautiful true 
> Channuka story.
> 
> shoshanna
> 
> 
> >
> >Young Private Winneger was with the U.S. Army
> >as it marched through Europe at the end of World
> >War II. His unit was assigned to a European village
> >with the orders to secure the town, search for any
> >hiding Nazis and to help the villagers in any way
> >they could.
> >
> >Winneger was on patrol one night when he saw a
> >figure running through a field just outside the village.
> >He shouted, "Halt or I'll shoot." The figure ducked
> >behind a tree. Winneger waited and eventually the
> >figure came out and figuring that Winneger was no
> >longer nearby, went to a spot near a large tree and
> >started to dig. Winneger waited until the figure had
> >finished digging and was once more on the move
> >before he stepped out and again shouted, "Halt or
> >I'll shoot!" The figure ran.  Winneger decided not to
> >shoot but to try to catch the furtive figure. He shortly
> >caught up with the figure and tackled it to the ground.
> >
> >To his surprise he found he had captured a young
> >boy. An ornate menorah had fallen from the boy's
> >hands in the scuffle. Winneger picked up the
> >menorah. The boy tried to grab it back shouting,
> >"Give it to me. It's mine!" Winneger assured the
> >boy that he was among friends. Furthermore, he
> >himself was Jewish. The boy who had just survived
> >several years of the Holocaust and had been in a
> >concentration camp was mistrustful of all men in
> >uniforms. He had been forced to watch the shooting
> >of his father. He had no idea what had become of
> >his mother.
> >
> >In the weeks that followed, Winneger took the young
> >boy, whose name was David, under his wing. As they
> >became closer and closer, Winneger's heart went out
> >to the boy. He offered David the opportunity to come
> >back to New York City with him. David accepted and
> >Winneger went through all the necessary paperwork
> >and officially adopted David.
> >
> >Winneger was active in the New York Jewish community.
> >An acquaintance of his, a curator of the Jewish Museum
> >in Manhattan, saw the menorah. He told David it was a
> >very valuable historic, European Menorah and should be
> >shared with the entire Jewish Community. He  offered
> >David $50,000 for the menorah.
> >
> >But David refused the generous offer saying the menorah
> >had been in his family for over 200 years and that no
> >amount of money could ever make him sell it.
> >
> >When Chanukah came, David and Winneger lit the
> >menorah in the window of their home in New York City.
> >David went upstairs to his room to study and Winneger
> >stayed downstairs in the room with the menorah.
> >
> >There was a knock on the door and Winneger went to
> >answer. He found a woman with a strong German accent
> >who said that she was walking down the street when she
> >saw the menorah in the window. She said that she had
> >once had one just like it in her family and had never seen
> >any other like it.  Could she come and take a closer look?
> >Winneger invited her in and said that the menorah
> >belonged to his son who could perhaps tell her more
> >about it. Winneger went upstairs and called David down
> >to talk to the woman and that is how David was reunited
> >with his mother.
> >
> >This is retelling from memory (so some of the details
> >may be wrong) from a true story told by Rabbi Allan C.
> >Tuffs to the congregation at Matthew Weil's Bar Mitzvah,
> >Temple Shalom, Levittown PA, December 7, 1996.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> END OF DIGEST
> 
> ---
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Frederic Clarke Putnam, Ph.D.
"Dominus illuminatio mea."

Professor of Old Testament
Biblical Theological Seminary
fputnam at biblical.edu
215-368-5000x150 (office & voice-mail)



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