JEDP

peter_kirk at sil.org peter_kirk at sil.org
Fri Dec 17 11:30:56 EST 1999


Dear Noel,

I am glad to see that you have begun to sketch out some evidence, and 
of course I don't expect you personally and on this list to do this 
thoroughly. Also I am not trying to postulate one author for the whole 
Hebrew Bible or even the whole Pentateuch, this discussion started 
with Genesis 1-11. Indeed I am not really trying to postulate one 
author for that passage, merely asking for evidence of multiple 
authors. I have now seen some, which certainly requires further 
investigation but falls short of demonstrating the full documentary 
hypothesis. It also seems clear to me, from the contributions to this 
thread, that the documentary hypothesis no longer holds the undisputed 
foreground, and does need to defend itself from competing theories 
lest over the years it be relegated to the sidelines.

Best wishes to you also for Christmas and the New Year,

Peter Kirk


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re[3]: JEDP
Author:  <nor at iol.ie> at Internet
Date:    16/12/1999 23:00


Hello

In response to Peter and Armando

Are you asking me to reiterate the reasons why the Documentary hypothesis 
came into being in the first place?  I refer you to all the literature on 
the subject for the last 100 years from Wellhausen to Van Seters, they lay 
out the reasons far better than I could.

Does it not strike you as strange that in many cases when the author uses 
Elohim he writes with one style and point of view/agenda and that when he 
uses Yahweh he uses another, this is leaving aside any theological imprint. 
And this of course is the most obvious and simple argument for sources.

As for being a schizophrenic, it is possible that it is all by the same 
author, but it is also possible that James Brown wrote all the Beatles 
songs, and maybe in 2000 years someone will have that theory.

Those who postulate one author then have to come up with fairly detailed 
reasons why gen. 1-2:a and gen. 2:4b-4:24, and the entire flood narrative, 
just to mention the most obvious examples, are by the same author, not to 
mention the entire Pentateuch and Deuteronomy. And then they have to tie 
these texts together.  I have not yet been convinced by the literary 
gymnastics that have to be applied when sources provide a simpler answer.


Then of course where does that leave Deuteronomy and DtrH, is the whole 
bible from genesis to 2 kings by the same author?  Surely that division is 
beyond doubt, so why the reluctance to acknowledge  that the individual 
books of the Pentateuch/tetrateuch/hexateuch, whichever term you wish to 
apply, can be from more than one author.

It us up to the 'non-documentarians' to provide the proof for the simple 
reason that the standard excepted model for at least the first 80 years of 
this century has been based around JEDP, it is only in the last 20 years that 
the 'Canon' and 'literary' school  (I use the terms loosely )have began to 
make inroads into the theory but as yet there is nothing concrete enough to 
displace the Documentary Hypothesis, it still holds the foreground. Although 
again I must stress in greatly modified form.

I am sorry if you think I am dodging giving 'proof, but I have neither the 
time nor inclination to start rehashing the last 100 years, the ball is in 
your court.



As Christmas is approaching my leisure time will be greatly curtailed as I 
shall be enjoying the festivities and so I may not be able to respond as 
often as I would like, if this thread continues. Just in case you think I'm 
avoiding the issue:-)

Best Regards and Seasons Greetings to all.

Noel O Riordan











----- Original Message -----
From: <peter_kirk at sil.org>
To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu> 
Sent: 17 December 1999 00:37
Subject: Re[2]: JEDP


> Dear Noel,
>
> You write: "if they are by one author then he must have been a
> schizophrenic". I am not saying that I disagree, but precisely what 
> evidence do you have of that?
>
> NPL has made a good specific point that the chronology of the flood
> narrative is difficult with one author, though it surprises me that he 
> wrote a paper about this without reading one on the same subject which 
> had just been published - and I also have not read Longacre's paper
> which may refute NPL's point.
>
> So please, everyone, come up with some evidence rather than with 
> attempts at psychoanalysis across huge gulfs of culture and
> understanding. You ask "the non-documentarians to account for the (for 
> want of a better word) sources". But unless you can present any
> specific evidence for sources, there is simply nothing to account for! 
>
> Peter Kirk
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
> Subject: Re: JEDP
> Author:  <nor at iol.ie> at Internet
> Date:    15/12/1999 19:25
>
>
> Hello Peter
>
> This is a rather simplistic explanation, the fact that the texts are in 
the
> one document is not the equivalent to one author, if they are by one 
author
> then he must have been a schizophrenic.  You may at best postulate one
> compiler, you cannot discount the last 100 years because in some circles 
it
> is not in vogue.  the documentary hypothesis is in need of re-evaluation 
but
> the answer does not lie in one author. 
>
> As for providing proof, the proof I suggest lies with the 
non-documentarians
> to account for the (for want of a better word) sources of the Pentateuch 
if
> they do not agree with the idea of at least 3 sources (JDP) 
>
> The documentary hypothesis still, (although in modified form, the best of 
> which I can not decide on) provides the best answers.
>
> best regards
>
> Noel O Riordan
>
> <snip>
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: nor at iol.ie 
> To unsubscribe, forward this message to 
$subst('Email.Unsub')
> To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu. 
>
>


---
You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: Peter_Kirk at sil.org
To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-hebrew-14207U at franklin.oit.unc.e
du
To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu.




More information about the b-hebrew mailing list