[B-Greek] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 21 06:09:25 EDT 2010


Ὑπομονή hUPOMONH is generally rendered by "endure" in most English 
translations.  This is the sense that it seems to have in the rest of the NT, 
but I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding to render it as such in the 
Apocalypse.  Note its usage in Re 1310 


εἴ τις εἰς αἰχμαλωσίαν, εἰς αἰχμαλωσίαν ὑπάγει·
εἴ τις ἐν μαχαίρῃ ἀποκτανθῆναι αὐτὸν ἐν μαχαίρῃ ἀποκτανθῆναι.
 
῟Ωδέ ἐστιν ἡ ὑπομονὴ καὶ ἡ πίστις τῶν ἁγίων.
 
EI TIS EIS AIXMALWSIAN, EIS AIXMALWSIAN hUPAGEI;
EI TIS EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI AUTON EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI.
 
hWDE ESTIN hH hUPOMONH KAI hH PISTIS TWN hAGIWN.
 
 
To understand it there as "endurance" is to make complete nonsense of the 
passage.  To avoid such nonsense the RSV and NRSV have rendered it as "Here is a 
call for endurance...." when there is no call for anything indicated in the 
text.  It rather simply posits its existence.  I think BDAG's second sense of 
the word is more appropriate in the Apocalypse -- "expectation."  What is there 
being stated then is that the expectation of the Church is that one's "fate" is 
determined and will be effected.  It approaches the sense of "creed."george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: John Calvin Hall <johncalvinhall at gmail.com>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 2:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7

Ah!

Now, the question begs...  What is the difference between BASTAZW and hUPOMENW?

Excellent post.  Thank you!


On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:39 AM, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't see any determination from the language itself that it is either willful 
or non-willful.  It is simply a fact.  I would suppose it to be understood as 
willing from the context of the narrative that it is willing, but I don't 
suppose that it is a factor of the language itself.  Note the use of the verb 
βαστάζω in Re 2 in the sense of "to endure."
>-- 
Respectfully,
John Calvin Hall
Twin Falls, Idaho  83301
johncalvinhall at gmail.com


      


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