[SM-Discuss] GTK+2 UPDATE REVERTED
Vlad Glagolev
stealth at sourcemage.org
Mon Sep 15 14:18:24 EDT 2008
> Here's my take on the issue: revert the reversion, i.e. go back to gtk+2
> 2.14.
Okay. But that's your choice. As I already said I don't wanna have lots of semi-b0rked spells
in local grimoire or any other grimoire, having such issues. I stop to contribute to SMGL until
the problem is solved. If you're still on 2.12 or don't think about any users except yourself --
I just can't help with it, and I won't follow this way. I thought SMGL project follow the
bugless way, as I can see now -- it doesn't and I was wrong. Because of someone's thought "we
just need to update for update, doesn't matter if it affects the users/increase the number of
problems or no".
> I think this is the right solution mainly because we simply don't know
> how widespread this issue is, and if we don't update, we will never find
> out.
We _do_ and even more: we _know_. And we have a lot of info about it. Yes, not from SMGL users
cause I said: I just prevented the SMGL users from the problem. There are a lot of video chips
(mainly on laptops) affected. Xorg devs proved, that's not distro-specific. And even Jaka
understood: that's a _code_ problem, not any stupid config or video-card configuration or
something similiar.
I repeat: it's a wide-spread problem, and it's _KNOWN_:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/gtk/+bug/245383
Even more: every few hours/days the number of bugreports is increased.
And I have _THE SAME_ problem. I'm not ubuntu user (yes, really; at least ohloh prooves that).
Isn't the proof from gtk+ developers, xorg developers and linux users not enough (as we already
talked, it's not distro-specific) for you? If so, I can't talk about such proof anymore.
> It was a violation of our established processes to revert it without
> discussion, as it was a perfectly fine working spell.
And now you wanna revert it after the discussion. Huh, funny. So as I see, it wouldn't change
anything.
> We have a lot of apps and libs in the grimoire with bugs that affect one or more users.
And we shouldn't keep those bugs silently if we wanna keep the community of users (yes, users)
increasing.
> It's simply not feasible to keep stuff at older versions until that
> isn't the case anymore, or debian stable will be more up-to-date than we
> are.
There's no any spell strictly requiring gtk+ >= 2.14 (and won't be for a pretty long preiod of
time, if you read/researched gtk+ roadmap). Interesting, but even ArchLinux devs keep gtk+
2.12. They also have glib 2.18, but only in "Testing". And the funniest thing is they don't
have gtk+ 2.14 _even in "Testing"_. It won't hurt the system, and the system won't be out of
date for a grace period of time.
> Depending on the feedback we get once this is in test, we may or may not
> revert the update in the next stable-rc, but for test grimoire, I
> consider this not big enough an issue to force this downgrade.
That's not qualified downgrade. The last release from 2.12 branch was out few days ago.
> We can even attach the
> old spells to the bug report for those who don't read sm-discuss.
Feel free to do so.
I repeat one more time: that's not distro-development process. Where a user phucks his brain
everytime he wants to get his system _just working_. We should improve the quality of the end-
user product, imho, not downgrading it. If a user wants to get pretty stable and recently
updated system: he must cast test grimoire (yes, sometimes we need the recent software), create
local grimoire, create gtk+ spell there, create gail spell there (yes, he must know how to do
that too), play with scribe. It's even more sex than with xorg-modular.tar.bz2.
Most of the devs (and some cool users) play and work with test grimoire.
Again and again, quoting sandalle: test grimoire isn't for testing upstream bugs. I don't
wanna see the grimoire as a collection of broken stuff. And I also don't wanna track all those
spells having issues just before tagging to next -rc.
I can't switch to stable, too. That makes me useless as developer. So I stop the activity.
Sorry for incomprehension.
--
Dont wait to die to find paradise...
--
Cheerz,
Vlad "Enqlave" Glagolev
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