[permaculture] Fwd: Debate on need for new renewable energy sources for individuals and industry on Google+

Lawrence London lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Mon Dec 2 13:48:35 EST 2013


My latest comment FWIW:

Permaculture isn't going to break the laws of physics but it can
significantly reduce human being's footprint, carbon and otherwise, on
Earth. Why endless growth? Why not reduce population and help people become
more self sufficient and independent through education and knowledge
sharing. Permaculture offers the way to accomplish this.
For a brief intro go here:
Permaculture Mailing List
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Read the public archives for much more information about permaculture and
how to practice it. Google it also. It is a global movement.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:51 AM
Subject: Debate on need for new renewable energy sources for individuals
and industry on Google+
To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>

What is the second law of thermodynamics?
Endless movement between hot and cold will eventually mean the end of the
universe
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/01/what-is-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics
"Thermodynamics is the study of heat and energy. At its heart are laws that
describe how energy moves around within a system, whether an atom, a
hurricane or a black hole. The first law describes how energy cannot be
created or destroyed, merely transformed from one kind to another. The
second law, however, is probably better known and even more profound
because it describes the limits of what the universe can do. This law is
about inefficiency, degeneration and decay. It tells us all we do is
inherently wasteful and that there are irreversible processes in the
universe. It gives us an arrow for time and tells us that our universe has
a inescapably bleak, desolate fate."

Debate on need for new renewable energy sources for individuals and
industry on Google+

Amy:
"I hate reading the Guardian for science topics.  Except this time.
 They're finally right about it.  A thoughtful person will read the article
and ask how are we going to continue our quest for endless growth without
finding new sources of energy.  Republicans have blinders on when it comes
to oil.  Environmentalists are singing the wrong song.  Saving the
environment is a secondary objective.  Finding renewable energy sources
usable by industry and homes should be the goal.  Finding that stops the
entropy, cheapens fuel costs, lessens dependence on foreign suppliers, and
improves environmental quality."

Me:
""Environmentalists are singing the wrong song." Define those
"environmentalists". Who, what, etc. Environmentalists who are learning and
promoting the permaculture discipline are doing exactly what is needed,
many natural farmers too. They get ignored, witness your statement. Nearly
everything permaculture stands for contributes to energy conservation,
recycling, reducing waste. This discipline is ignored! Why? Propaganda,
greenwashing, the anti environment forces, anti science, anti organic, all
facets of big ag and big industry wanting to control the economy and
eliminate competition. Look at FSMA, look at inflation. Saving the
environment is the primary objective along with instilling  societal values
that include taking responsibility for one's on fate, survival, behavior
and cooperation with one's neighbor. How about supporting an economy that
does not revolve around war profiteering, the military industrial complex
and its surveillance arm and invasion and exploitation of other countries.
"Finding renewable energy sources usable by industry and homes should be
the goal." Those sources are already here and available to to all; they are
passive solutions designed to reduce consumption of commercial energy
sources: permaculture, natural farming, local food production for local
distribution (FSMA just about does that in). And what about fracking? You
can't be in support of that I hope. We have what we need now to make giant
steps in energy conservation but noone is listening, industry, government,
consumers alike. - LL"

Anyone care to add to this?
-- 
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura at gmail.com
http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Skype: lawrence.f.london


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