[permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture

ChildrensPeaceGuild childrenspeaceguild at yahoo.com
Fri May 4 03:24:47 EDT 2012


While Toby has already succinctly debunked these points, I would like to point out that #2 overpopulationisamyth was funded by a pro-life, neo-con institute with ties to PNAC (Project for a New American Century).
 
To spare you having to sit through the video, here are a few highlights:

 
From: Oystein Tandberg <oystein_tandberg at yahoo.no>
To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture - important issues

:-) Thank you, Toby, for your kind reply - you produce NO arguments though, so here are some links, so you can read up:-)  

1. Destructive man made climate change - http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/

2. Overpopulation - http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

3. Viruses - http://www.virusmyth.org/  

4. Pasteur - http://www.whale.to/a/lost_history_of_medicine.html 

best regards
Øystein 




--- Den tor 2012-05-03 skrev Toby Hemenway <toby at patternliteracy.com>:

> Fra: Toby Hemenway <toby at patternliteracy.com>
> Emne: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture - important issues
> Til: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Dato: Torsdag 3. mai 2012 13.37
> On May 3, 2012, at 2:18 AM, Oystein
> Tandberg wrote:
> 
> > I don't want to make this a long e-mail; so I'll just
> jump to the conclusions: 
> > 
> Sure, I'll fall for it. Anyone who reads my stuff knows I
> love ideas that overturn the conventional wisdom. And I've
> looked at all the evidence for these statements before, in
> detail, because I am naturally sympathetic to revisionism.
> They are each nonsense.
> 
> > 1. Humans are not in charge of the climate (so the
> permaculture response 
> 
> While it is literally true that no one is in charge of the
> climate, those words are a soundbite straight from
> corporate-funded think tanks. Not being a climate scientist,
> I must rely on experts here, and I tend to side with 99% of
> the world's climate scientists rather than a handful of
> oil-company mouthpieces making zombie statements that will
> not die when disproved. Follow the money: the
> anti-climate-change propagandists work for the carbon
> industry.
> 
> > 2. Exponential human growth (overpopulation) is a myth.
> 
> 
> The human population is doubling at decreasing intervals.
> That is, by definition, exponential growth, so this
> statement is mathematically ignorant. As for it being a
> problem, population growth is now being sustained by fossil
> fuel-based food. Maybe we'll find something else as oil runs
> out, but we are already seeing huge declines in food yields
> from overuse of soils (I did population genetics work for a
> while; I recognize the signs of overpopulation.) Maybe
> having one species use 40% of the Earth's annual production
> is sustainable, but if population doubles again, so does
> that number. Anyone who doesn't think human impact is a
> problem should start drinking from the nearest river, and
> see how long you live. I suggest a great video called
> "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy" as a good look at what
> population growth means.
> http://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_population_energy_video1.html
> 
> These last two are way off topic, but they are fun for me.
> 
> > 3. Viruses, as infectious microorganisms, is a myth. 
> 
> Now we're in my field. I did immunology and genetics
> research for 15 years. I have used viruses to cause
> infections in otherwise healthy organisms. Their entire
> genetic machinery is designed to infect; their genes have
> been independently used to cause infections, and to do
> everything needed to infect healthy organisms. They are
> little miracles, cleverly designed to cause infection
> because it they cannot reproduce without infecting a host;
> it's their raison d'etre. Also, it's difficult to explain
> how a killed virus can confer immunity against a live virus,
> even in very unhealthy people, without viruses being a cause
> of infection. 
> 
> > 4. Pasteur was wrong - an infection is always a
> secondary illness; infections arise after tissue has been
> damaged, by malnutrition or intoxication. (PR: enrich the
> blood for good health, like you would enrich the soil for
> good growth)
> 
> People who say this have not read Pasteur. He was not
> "wrong." He knew that otherwise healthy organisms throw off
> infections much faster than sick ones. And I'd be careful
> with statements that include the word "always."
> 
> I suggest getting into the best shape possible and then
> letting an Ebola-sick monkey spray blood on you, or stay in
> a room dusted with with hanta-virus mouse turds. It may
> change your mind about viruses.
> 
> These arguments take advantage of the fact that most people
> have not been taught to do critical thought, and get sucked
> in by fallacious bits of sophistry that match their politics
> and temperament, since they don't have the mental tools to
> properly evaluate them. As Dick Cheney reportedly said, "you
> can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are
> the ones we're looking for." Like I say, I love to upset the
> conventional wisdom, but promoting these dead-wrong, zombie
> arguments can do real harm to real people.
> 
> Now back to the important stuff.
> 
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture
> [searchstring]
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
> 
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com



“Early humans spent a good deal of time hungry, cold, and without shelter” and faced a “hard life of meeting our basic needs.”
 
This tired old Hobbesian adage (a variant on his view that life before civilization was “nasty, brutish, and short”) has been disproven by anthropologists (Marshall Sahlins, Richard Lee, Pierre Clastres, et al.) 

Also, according to the video, demographers (such as Julian Simon who believed finite resources can be converted to infinite wealth) claim: "As our numbers have grown, so has our average standard of living.”
 
And just how exactly do they measure the standard of living? "Per capita income, amount of calories consumed, and average height."
In other words, by using the measurements favored by Western industrial civilization.


More information about the permaculture mailing list