[permaculture] Nth American Conference

Cory Brennan cory8570 at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 12 01:10:02 EDT 2012


I wasn't suggesting Darren come here for the conference! This is a national conference, why not stick to our own crew? In the past, he and others have been criticized by some because of traveling internationally by air. There was no thought to what good they were doing. If someone in that country could do as good a job, then they should be hired. But often that is not the case. And most of those who travel make it a point to train people locally who can take over. Under those circumstances I see advantages to flying.

Another example: a lot of positive change was created by experts flying to Haiti. There are many thousands of people using compost toilets and knowing how to build and run them safely, now. The compost is being used in some cases to grow trees to reforest the heavily deforested areas or local food. Was that worth the plane trip? 

I add up: some of the economic injustices being reversed, cholera and other human waste generated diseases gotten under control in those areas (maybe hundreds or thousands of lives saved), reforestation - by many thousands of trees, many people more aware of the principles and tools of permaculture, Haitians meeting some white people who weren't there just to rip them off or "take over", local food supplies being regenerated, etc. I think that is more than worth it. 
 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
www.meetup.com/createclearwater


________________________________
 From: Bob Waldrop <bob at bobwaldrop.net>
To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org 
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Nth American Conference
 
I don't know that I would recommend forbidding people to come by 
airplane, but I think the conference can encourage responsible travel 
methods.

I think it is very easy for privileged white people to make excuses for 
damaging the planet.  I know that I -- as a privileged white guy -- am 
really good at making those excuses because I of course think that I am 
one special guy who is doing a lot of important work. But that is 
exactly why I quit soliciting and accepting presentation opportunities 
that require air travel.  I am going to the Occupy the Food Prize events 
in mid October at the invitation of the Des Catholic Worker community, 
but that's a bus trip there and back so I can do that. I've also been 
invited to a Catholic Worker farm gathering in February, but I am not 
going to that because it is the week after Ash Wednesday and I would 
have to fly there and back in order to meet my other commitments here.  
I mentioned this increasing lack of interest in travel to a spiritual 
advisor and he said, "Bob, this is evidence of the growing sanity of 
your life." I shocked by that and of course was immediately tempted to 
book several long distance airline trips since I am not sure that I want 
to be thought of as sane but I guess the sanity had so grabbed hold of 
me that I didn't follow through on the urge.

I think it is a violation of the ethics of permaculture not to question 
our activities that damage the planet, especially if we are privileged 
white people.

We may decide to continue to do them anyway, I continue to drive my 1995 
Geo Metro about 600 miles total each month, but I keep a record of that 
and my goal is to reduce my driving each year.  I was driving 15,000 
miles/year when I made that decision, and have cut my driving in half 
since coming to that understanding with myself.

And I stand by my suggestion that we should be careful in how we develop 
our structures.   Authenticity is important to all aspects of 
permaculture and that includes the way we organize our meetings which 
includes the way we travel to our meetings and what the consequences are 
for the planet of our activities.

Regarding Mr. Doherty. . . Why we would want to drag someone all the way 
from Australia to our North American event?  Why would he want to come 
here?  If I was Australian, it would take handcuffs and military force 
to drag me into the United States of America.

Bob Waldrop, Okie City




On 8/11/2012 7:51 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> http://www.iata.org/pressroom/facts_figures/fact_sheets/pages/environment.aspx
>
>
> http://www.seat61.com/CO2flights.htm
>
>
> http://environment.about.com/od/greenlivingdesign/a/fly_vs_drive.htm
>
>
> Though plane flight creates significantly more carbon footprint, I am not completely opposed to using planes - it really depends on whether or not what you're doing is going to significantly offset the use. What if the trip would lower pollution and land abuse over the long term, at significant gain? I think it's ridiculous to question the use of planes by people like Darren Doherty, for instance, when he is planting thousands of trees or revitilizing significant acreage in a way that could last for generations.
>
> I prefer trains myself whenever possible - quite comfortable, you can walk around on them, and I can catch up on all the reading I might otherwise never get around to. Plus in some areas, the scenery is fabulous. I saw my first bald eagle in flight riding in a train through a remote wilderness area. He flew right alongside my window for a bit.
>
> Koreen Brennan
>
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
> www.meetup.com/createclearwater
>
>
> ________________________________
>   From: Bob Waldrop <bob at bobwaldrop.net>
> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 7:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Nth American Conference
>  
> I hope that people don't travel to an event like this by air.   If
> people are too busy to take the bus or train, then they shouldn't go.
>
> I think we ought to be careful about what structures we set up in
> permaculture.  If we set up structures that encourage people to do evil
> -- such as financially support the airline industry which is one of the
> major contributors to global warming emissions -- then we aren't doing
> permaculture.
>
> Attempting to use permaculture for a bad end is always a type 1 error.
> Since the journey is as important as the destination, indeed, it might
> be said that the direction and method of the journey is the definition
> of the end, we need to be careful and cautious about the means we choose
> to achieve our ends, lest our ends be distorted beyond recognition.
>
> Bob Waldrop, Oklahoma City
>
> On 8/10/2012 8:41 PM, Michael Pilarski wrote:
>> Some of us have thought about, and talked about, a North American PC Convergence at some length.  Much of it not on the list serve.
>>
>> I have proposed that the national be rotated around between the regional convergences already happening.  Still waiting to hear if any regions want to volunteer to do the first one.
>>
>> Another scenario is for a consortium of organizers from different bioregions to come together to organize the national.  The more regions represented the better.
>>
>> In the first scenario the national would rotate around the country sometime on the coasts sometimes in the middle, etc.
>>
>> In the 2nd scenario a location could be picked relatively central to the country.  Ideally with good access to a big airport and even more important (I think) on a major Amtrak rail hub.  Another criteria would be an active local permaculture group to help do the local work needed.
>>
>> Chicago is a great railroad hub but doesn't have a strong permie group (to my knowledge).  Cincinnati, Denver? Bloomington, Indiana? Ideas? At this point any good offer by a strong group can be put forward.
>>
>> I imagine that in every region there would be a few or a dozen people who would work to make it happen.
>>
>> Lead time.  6 months would be good.  3 months minimum.  The networks are fast these days.
>>
>> It seems like part of the goal would be to bring a lot of the movement old-timers together along with a lot of the course teachers and the new blood.
>>
>> The main purposes being to build the movement, exchange strategies, build networks etc.  Not permaculture 101 how to do a sheet mulch.
>>
>> A few thoughts.
>>
>> Michael Pilarski
>>
>>
>> Michael Pilarski
>>
>> --- On Fri, 8/10/12, Cory Brennan <cory8570 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Cory Brennan <cory8570 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Nth American Conference
>> To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: Friday, August 10, 2012, 4:39 PM
>>
>> What time frame are we looking at? When would we want to do this? I have reached out to some on the rez and they have expressed interest.
>>    
>> Koreen Brennan
>>
>> www.growpermaculture.com
>> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
>> www.meetup.com/createclearwater
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>     From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart at gmail.com>
>> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:13 PM
>> Subject: [permaculture] Nth American Conference
>>    
>> Nth American Convergence...keep the ball rolling before the moss takes
>> over. Shall we pursue the options suggested for the venue being in
>> Dakota...can we have more detailed information on this possible scenario to
>> see if it can be developed to reality.
>>
>> This subject  / event is mooted as a Nth American Conference NOT a national
>> USA Conference for the fact of building up the Continental Regional network
>> to form part of the continental regions of the world as a sub group of the
>> international convergence (IPC)..Steve Hart
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