[permaculture] Conservatism revisited

Dieter Brand diebrand at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 17 15:29:10 EST 2008


Lawrence,
   
  I thought my original message in the thread "lactoferments" which changed
  to "conservatism" didn't make it to the list. I only noticed now, when looking
  at the archives, that it did and that it generated a lively debate which I'm very 
  sorry to have missed. In fact, I noticed that I didn't get most of the messages 
  from the permaculture list in the last few weeks. Is there anything that can 
  be done about this?
   
  David, et al.,
   
  Regarding the debate, I agree that it is the small things all of us can do that 
  can make a difference. In fact, that has been a determining conviction in my
  life for the last 40 years. However, I also believe that it is not healthy to 
  barricade ourselves in a cosy little ecological or permaculture corner. Nothing
  is going to bring back the idyllic life of medieval villages, if that ever was idyllic.
  And if we like it or not, mainstream society with all its big bad corporations
  is going to determine how we will live in the future. A mental frame seeing
  the World in simplistic black and white shades with the good (us) on one side
  and the bad (society with its evil corporations) on the other is not productive 
  and is completely beside the point.
   
  Lets just for the fun of it consider the opposite scenario. The corporations 
  can be very effective at devising methods and means for saving energy and
  resources squandered by traditional technologies.  They just need to be 
  directed that way by political processes, which is not achieved by talk of
  “imperial elections”. Present day pluralistic society, no matter what you
  call it, has more potential for change to adapt to changing circumstances
  than any past model, be it tribalism, feudalism, Stalinism or you name it.
  Utopian ideas in history, no matter how well intentioned, unfortunately 
  always degenerated into bloodshed and repression usually worse then the 
  tyranny they supplanted. And I don't believe for one moment that any of the 
  fundamentalist ideas bandied about today would be any less bloody.  
  Humans or the mechanisms of life are just too complex to be pressed into 
  any simple system.  Systems need to evolve naturally.  Obviously there 
  is need for direction - watch that the big guys don't take all, but a closet 
  mentally is not suitable for solving future problems.
   
  Having said that, there are obviously problems that at the moment seem
  too momentous to be solved within present models. Most of all economic 
  growth.  How and with what can we replace economic growth as the driving 
  force in the economy.  Again, solutions will be with society and the 
  corporations, not against them.  To be gleeful about pending doom that 
  would justify our resentments towards society is not very, well, ...
   
  I better stop rambling since I don’t have the feeling that I manage to 
  express what I want to say very well. Anyway, nice to see you folks 
  involved in a discussions.
   
  >...making oddly definitive claims about how capitalism, corporatism, or any 
  >other aspect of business-as-usual is "just the way it is" or "all that we've got" 
  >or "here to stay". It's really interesting (and at times frustrating) to see such 
  >extremely conservative notions finding widespread acceptance among an 
  >otherwise farsighted and "big picture"-oriented movement. - David
   
  This reminds me of smoke filled rooms in 1968 and being labelled a lackey
  of the bourgeoisie by Maoists with their little red book. I have never had to
  change my basic convictions, they had to change theirs. When it become 
  too distasteful to justify the millions of deaths left behind by the red guards, 
  they turned to more rewarding pursuits in politics or commerce. There are 
  turns and twists in any life, but I have never compromised my believe in a 
  more humane and peaceful society.
   
  Dieter Brand
  Portugal
   

       
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