[permaculture] Conservatism revisited
Dieter Brand
diebrand at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 17 15:29:10 EST 2008
Lawrence,
I thought my original message in the thread "lactoferments" which changed
to "conservatism" didn't make it to the list. I only noticed now, when looking
at the archives, that it did and that it generated a lively debate which I'm very
sorry to have missed. In fact, I noticed that I didn't get most of the messages
from the permaculture list in the last few weeks. Is there anything that can
be done about this?
David, et al.,
Regarding the debate, I agree that it is the small things all of us can do that
can make a difference. In fact, that has been a determining conviction in my
life for the last 40 years. However, I also believe that it is not healthy to
barricade ourselves in a cosy little ecological or permaculture corner. Nothing
is going to bring back the idyllic life of medieval villages, if that ever was idyllic.
And if we like it or not, mainstream society with all its big bad corporations
is going to determine how we will live in the future. A mental frame seeing
the World in simplistic black and white shades with the good (us) on one side
and the bad (society with its evil corporations) on the other is not productive
and is completely beside the point.
Lets just for the fun of it consider the opposite scenario. The corporations
can be very effective at devising methods and means for saving energy and
resources squandered by traditional technologies. They just need to be
directed that way by political processes, which is not achieved by talk of
imperial elections. Present day pluralistic society, no matter what you
call it, has more potential for change to adapt to changing circumstances
than any past model, be it tribalism, feudalism, Stalinism or you name it.
Utopian ideas in history, no matter how well intentioned, unfortunately
always degenerated into bloodshed and repression usually worse then the
tyranny they supplanted. And I don't believe for one moment that any of the
fundamentalist ideas bandied about today would be any less bloody.
Humans or the mechanisms of life are just too complex to be pressed into
any simple system. Systems need to evolve naturally. Obviously there
is need for direction - watch that the big guys don't take all, but a closet
mentally is not suitable for solving future problems.
Having said that, there are obviously problems that at the moment seem
too momentous to be solved within present models. Most of all economic
growth. How and with what can we replace economic growth as the driving
force in the economy. Again, solutions will be with society and the
corporations, not against them. To be gleeful about pending doom that
would justify our resentments towards society is not very, well, ...
I better stop rambling since I dont have the feeling that I manage to
express what I want to say very well. Anyway, nice to see you folks
involved in a discussions.
>...making oddly definitive claims about how capitalism, corporatism, or any
>other aspect of business-as-usual is "just the way it is" or "all that we've got"
>or "here to stay". It's really interesting (and at times frustrating) to see such
>extremely conservative notions finding widespread acceptance among an
>otherwise farsighted and "big picture"-oriented movement. - David
This reminds me of smoke filled rooms in 1968 and being labelled a lackey
of the bourgeoisie by Maoists with their little red book. I have never had to
change my basic convictions, they had to change theirs. When it become
too distasteful to justify the millions of deaths left behind by the red guards,
they turned to more rewarding pursuits in politics or commerce. There are
turns and twists in any life, but I have never compromised my believe in a
more humane and peaceful society.
Dieter Brand
Portugal
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