[permaculture] conservatism

Jay Woods woodsjay at cox.net
Fri Feb 15 05:39:43 EST 2008


I thought that replacing consumerism with permaculture is what we are doing 
here: getting the trees growing, insulating the house, developing our own 
power and water sources, cycling waste back into something useful, inventing 
new sources of income, and working close to home until all this happens.

On Thursday 14 February 2008 11:13:39 pm Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:
> David Travis wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:19:21 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Dieter Brand
> >
> >>I'm not going to defend consumerism, nor am I adverse to
> >>bashing the Monsantos of this World. That is the good fight.
> >>Yet, that economic system, with all its imperfections, is all
> >>we have got. There are changes ahead with the resources
>
> Dieter is right about this, at least partially, except that that isn''t all
> we've got. On one level its a fixed global economy, on the other hand there
> are vast untapped resources within the global network of local economies.
> This is the other part of "all we've got" which has been largely
> undeveloped underutilized.
>
> >>of this planet being as limited as they are. The system will
> >>stay stable as long as it has enough flexibility to adapt to
> >>the changes needed. And if you look into history or at other
> >>cultural spheres you are unlikely to find other models that
> >>provide more flexibility.
> >
> > I'm always amazed -- and I'm speaking generally about many of my fellow
> > permaculturists here -- at how the so many of the same people who think
> > we can radically and creatively alter the way we eat, drink, live, work,
> > and relate to the Earth are often paradoxically willing to throw up their
> > hands at politics and economics, making oddly definitive claims about how
> > capitalism, corporatism, or any other aspect of business-as-usual is
> > "just the way it is" or  "all that we've got" or "here to stay". It's
> > really interesting (and at times frustrating) to see such extremely
> > conservative notions finding widespread acceptance among an otherwise
> > farsighted and "big picture"-oriented movement. - David
>
> So what would suggest they do? What do you see as the "next step" they
> should take. They clearly see the issues at hand but don't want to deal
> with them or think they can't and just say they they don't want to rock the
> boat or disturb the status quo for fear of losing what they've got (the
> "that's all we've got" argument). I see this as a collective and
> collaborative effort, to each his own, distribution of effort according to
> akill and talent and resources they have access to and as time permits. A
> watched pot never boils. There seems to ba a common interest (at least here
> in the US) in seeing change happen. I hear about the very rich/very
> poor/vanishing middle class problem. With the election coming up this is a
> top priority issue.
>
>  > at how the so many of the same people who think we can radically and
>  > creatively alter the way we eat, drink, live, work, and relate to the
>  > Earth are often paradoxically willing to throw up their hands at
>  > politics and economics,
>
> So, again, what would you suggest they do?
>
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