[permaculture] mis-sent

L. Santoyo Designs santoyo at earthflow.com
Wed Oct 10 13:53:32 EDT 2007


Sean, Claudia et al -

I think that everyone is in agreement about wanting to preserve the 
integrity of a Permaculture Design Certificate Course.  (Of course -a 
person that misses classes, design work, etc -wouldn't be eligible 
for a certificate of completion -why would they?)

>>"Teachers in the region had their own agendas and their own courses 
>>competing for students..."  
>
>>"Did people skip days and still get a certificate? "
>
>>"...I see this as a flaw in the modular format."

These additional questions, comments and concerns  -work to support 
the need for continuing training, constant contact with a qualified 
mentor and support the 2 year apprenticeship requirements that are 
invaluable for maintaining the highest standards and in creating 
highly experienced Instructors and Designers -everywhere.

As a small example: The first modular courses were taught over 15 
years ago! -lot's of the issues raised now are the same issues that, 
since these first courses, have been addressed and solved in many, 
many creative ways... (finding that out, in advance, is what a Mentor 
is for!)

I'm not against reinventing the wheel -but at least the wheel is a 
good point of departure...

Larry Santoyo
http://www.earthflow.com/


>Yes, Sean.  I am sorry for my negative tone.  There are personal 
>issues shaping this that I  am passing through.  Since I have your 
>attention, however, can you tell me if attendance was taken at the
>course?  Did people skip days and still get a certificate?  I am a 
>bit stumped on this point.  I can offer make-ups, (which I presume 
>the Inwood course did not) but this isn't really the same as being 
>there.
>
>I see this as a flaw in the modular format.
>
>Again, I apologize for mistakenly sending to the list.  In a way 
>though, it is good and right that our feelings are out in the open.  
>I think I mentioned the tears to Larry because permaculture does 
>operate on a deep emotional level at times.
>
>It would be nice to offer a free class sometime.  Perhaps we can talk 
>about how to do that.
>Thanks for your constructive comments.
>
>Peace to you,
>Claudia
>
>
>On Oct 9, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Sean Maley wrote:
>
>>  Just to be clear on the tears shed at the Inwood Nature Center in 
>>  Manhattan, ... they were tears of joy.  It took over a year and a 
>>  half of planning, false starts, and much failure.  Class locations
>  > pulled out on us at the last moment. 
>>  Luckily we were able to saturate both PDC classes here in 
>>  Manhattan, despite the false start of not enough students for 
>>  competing classes last October.
>>
>>  We offered a course for $300 (sliding scale) in Manhattan.  The 
>>  class space was free; 200 acres of old growth and last salt marsh 
>>  in Manhattan.  The location was not entirely friendly, though, as 
>>  key individuals no longer worked at the Nature Center by the time 
>>  the class began.  The teachers, whom we were able to pay, stayed at 
>>  an organizer's apartment for these six weekends.
>>
>>  The presentations shamed the presentations of the two week PDC I 
>>  attended.  As far as we understand, this was the first PDC in 
>>  Manhattan.
>>
>>  Even further, we have individuals out in NYC looking for places to 
>>  learn yet more.  I have some meeting in Inwood that attended this 
>>  class.  Others from the class have been meeting in Brooklyn.
>>
>>  We should be applauding such heroic efforts.  Thank you to Ethan 
>>  and to others for your involvement.  We are sure to have other 
>>  classes for those who would like to be involved.
>>
>>  It is our hopes to find a way of including students who earn 
>>  exploitative wages in proximity to Wall Street costs of living 
>>  (Bronx per capita income in 1999 was at the bottom of all counties 
>>  in NY state; gentrification has been altering the situation of late).
>  >
>>  in Oct 8, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Claudia Joseph wrote:
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ---------------------------------
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>
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