[permaculture] Permaculture as science

jedd jedd at progsoc.org
Sun Jan 28 17:01:08 EST 2007


On Saturday 27 January 2007 5:06 am, Paul Cereghino wrote:
 ] world ever since.  I have met scientists that are open minded and closed 
 ] minded, but as a group they seem both open-minded and reflexively doubting.

 Hi Paul,

 I'd put that down to training, in part, and the original mindset that
 probably drew them to science, for the remainder.

 ] I have encountered the term 'science-based' in many policy circles as 
 ] well.  It is a term I increasingly distrust.  Scientists simply do 
 ] science -- to gradually and incrementally grow a body of theory that 

 Ah, I didn't have your overloading of the phrase 'science-based', but
 given the number of films I've seen that have been 'based on a true
 story' (etc) I can grok the concern.

 FWIW I meant it in the literal, original, sense.

 In any case, there seems to be much bandying about elsewhere in this
 discussion of the word spiritual, with much implied and much
 asserted, little of which I feel comfortable with. Part of the problem
 is doubtless the lack of definitions, and the likely misalignments of
 what different people mean when they use the s-word.  But most
 of it is the generalisations and assumptions being cast far & wide.

 As an example - being told that I necessarily have a religious
 imperative, because I'm human, is moderately offensive.  Come on
 in, join us, the water's fine.  I don't think Richard Dawkins has
 written a handbook on how to struggle through life without an
 invisible friend, but much of his writings do discuss the level
 and nature of the delusions involved.  But I digress.

 Coming back to what you wrote ...

 I get what you're saying about intuition, but don't see how that
 implies anything specifically unscientific.  Or rather, how our
 usage of our intuition implies or requires spirituality.

 ] I think there is a substantial difference between understanding of a 
 ] 'field of research' and 'understanding a place' encouraged by 
 ] permaculture.

 I think I disagree -- at least insofar as the level of commitment and
 the payoffs that both parties anticipate as a result of putting that
 much effort into understanding a particular *area* (physical or
 meta).  Yes, I'd imagine that some scientists that you could bump
 into would be so focussed on their own patch of the latter that
 they'd be insouciant about other areas of research, and you'd
 probably have a harder time finding a permaculturist down the
 road who had a comparably narrow field of view -- but I'd suggest
 that's a combination of factors -- the mindset and subsequent training
 of the typical scientist, and the far greater likelihood that the
 permaculturist could gain from knowing or understanding how other
 parts of the world utilised their design methodology.

 ] What is Godwin's Law?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 cheers,
 Jedd.



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