[permaculture] Democratic solutions to Permaculture

kevin s k.skvorak at verizon.net
Mon Aug 6 18:42:29 EDT 2007


I also want to express my gratitude for all of the sharing on this 
topic.  And i also want to express a profound senses of gratitude and 
humility i feel for the opportunity of being taught by so many 
wonderful teachers!

i really appreciate the deep sense many folks expressed that most of 
what they value in their involvement in permaculture is primarily 
experienced on the 'local' level

even though i started this thread, i also have some ambivalence as to 
the real needs served by a national organization.  virtually 
everything we spend our time on here at our place, is based on our 
local relationships, esp since we are primarily a CSA.  these are all 
very rewarding relationships, and we are happy to have come into a 
pretty supportive community

and anyway, most of the invisible structures i am personally drawn 
to, are basically focused on meeting very local needs for food, 
resource sharing, 'mutual aid'  type stuff , access to land, etc 
(hey, btw, does anyone have any available statistics on what the 
economic calculations on the value of non-monetary exchange, informal 
barter etc.?  it really seems like a pretty sizable piece of the 
"economy",  at least in rural areas)

  like michael, i do not have much  real engagement on a national 
level, except perhaps by this wonderful listserv!,  but i can 
imagine, at least, some of the needs that might be served, and many 
were articulated well by toby and others, and if there ever were such 
an org, i like the possibilities embodied in membership type 
organizations, esp since we are talking about relating on a National 
level, probably implying Legal status under the State and so forth. 
( like i said, i have some real ambivalence here! )

and i also express some gratitude as well to those who have already 
worked so hard for much longer than i have on so many of the good 
works that were woven in this 'thread', and feel i want to apologize 
for the way that i 'framed' much of what i expressed, as i don't 
think it expressed this respect very well at all!

thanks esp to michael and kathyann

best,
kevin


>
>
>From: KNat <knat at sprintmail.com>
>
>
>Perhaps a different view. Using more facets and less sides.
>Stating a concern one can see from their vantage point strengthens the
>ability of the group, to all see the same decision and its implications,
>to decide together. A concern of "negative" implication is not saying
>don't continue. It is merely saying "I see a potentially contrary
>reaction in this plan."
>The trust in the group, is to be brave enough to be the only one who
>sees it and speak your truth without fear of personal isolation.


>--------------------------
>
>From: Michael Burns
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Democratic solutions to Permacultures
>  conflicts?
>
>......



>The second problem is if you do not believe a national organization 
>is needed or appropriate at this time, to disagree with Kevin's idea 
>as presented also meant you would appear to agree with his 
>characteraztions of those who would disagree as lacking in "trust in 
>democratic process and organization," and prone to "individualistic 
>trends." Earlier in his questions/proposal he suggested that we 
>needed a process that "does not further divide us all, or place 
>people in turf battles, or cause any of the other internal problems 
>that seem to plague the 'movement'?
>
>Unwittingly, a discussion becomes framed as you are either for a 
>democratic national organization OR if not you are an undemocratic 
>individualist that accepts the divisions and turf battles. Egos, 
>values, and our own personal worth are at stake and the original 
>question becomes mired in distracting accusation, comparisons, 
>personal declarations, and dormant and minor disagreements become 
>divisions in a movement.
>...




More information about the permaculture mailing list