[permaculture] Peak Oil

Martin Naylor martinwnaylor at yahoo.com.au
Fri Oct 14 20:29:20 EDT 2005


their is no debate
either this planet becomes a global village,
or we die a short quick death, and who ever is left begins again with no resources at hand,
their is no alternative

Graham <grahamburnett at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
"Start at the end of your nose..."

nuff said...

d pfalzer wrote:

>I think the basis for the debate on whether it is
>Better to do permaculture in urban/suburban or rural
>areas needs to be an awareness that most raw materials
>Originate in rural areas, but the culture all of us
>live in Acts to Concentrate materials in Urban areas. 
>Do we take advantage of what our destructive culture
>will do for us and live in an urban setting? Or do we
>live in a rural setting and invest more of the energy
>ourselves to bring together the items we need? 
>
>I think that it is not at all obvious that either
>choice is uniformly "better" for everyone. Both
>choices deserve to be valued, IMO.
>
>--- Martin Naylor wrote:
>
> 
>
>>what people have to come to terms with is their
>>whole way of life is wrong, and they have to make
>>radical and fundemental changes in their
>>relationships, [family, work colegues, comunity,
>>culture, religion, politics and the earth], and it
>>is that simple, but just like meditation it is so
>>simple and yet so god damn hard,
>>love and freedom are at the begining [pass that on
>>to george bush, he might figure that you can not
>>fight for freedom, it is all ready thier]
>>
>>Bart Anderson wrote:
>>No offense meant, Kaia. Gardening is my favorite
>>part of permaculture and
>>to me is a good symbol for the entire permaculture
>>worldview, but I
>>understand your point.
>>
>>I think you speak for many in permaculture when you
>>say:
>>
>> 
>>
>>>If you apply the principles on site and in
>>> 
>>>
>>community now, peak oil won't
>> 
>>
>>>make much difference to those who are already
>>> 
>>>
>>getting a yield.
>>
>>However, I reluctantly find myelf in disagreement.
>>There are certain
>>periods of history, such as the last 50 years, in
>>which one can ignore the
>>larger political and economic trends. This was a
>>period of relative peace,
>>stability and prosperity for many countries. In
>>contrast the 1930s and
>>1940s, the time of the Great Depression and WW2,
>>were a period when most
>>people became caught up in world events. I'm afraid
>>that we are now
>>entering a similar period of turbulence.
>>
>>A polarization between rich and poor, wars over
>>resources, a clampdown on
>>political dissent. These are some of the political
>>and economic signs of
>>the transition from cheap energy to expensive
>>energy.
>>
>>My nephew watched lots of television and found few
>>opportunities after high
>>school, so he joined the Army and is now in Iraq.
>>Some members of my family
>>have hit it rich and are making large salaries,
>>while others have fallen
>>into the underclass. I don't think this is an
>>unusual pattern.
>>
>>My point is that the larger world will increasingly
>>impinge upon the
>>personal and the local. The challenge is to come to
>>terms with these
>>changes in an intelligent and productive way.
>>
>>My best, Bart
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Kaia Bronte" 
>>To: "permaculture" 
>>
>>Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 1:04 PM
>>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>>Bart, I did not suggest concentrating on
>>> 
>>>
>>gardening. That's putting words
>>in
>> 
>>
>>>my mouth.
>>>
>>>I suggested applying the principles and ethics of
>>> 
>>>
>>permaculture here and
>>now,
>> 
>>
>>>based on current reality, not uncertain future
>>> 
>>>
>>possibilities. Permaculture
>> 
>>
>>>is not gardening. It is a system that encompasses
>>> 
>>>
>>every aspect of life,
>> 
>>
>>>work, community.
>>>
>>>If you apply the principles on site and in
>>> 
>>>
>>community now, peak oil won't
>> 
>>
>>>make much difference to those who are already
>>> 
>>>
>>getting a yield. Peak oil is
>>a
>> 
>>
>>>noisy, faddish reason to concentrate on
>>> 
>>>
>>permaculture that is outweighed by
>> 
>>
>>>the many other reasons to apply the principles to
>>> 
>>>
>>design. Permaculture is
>> 
>>
>>>equally significant with or without a peak oil
>>> 
>>>
>>crisis.
>> 
>>
>>>/ l.s. / Kaia Bronte
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>[mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]On
>>> 
>>>
>>Behalf Of Bart
>> 
>>
>>>Anderson
>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:50 PM
>>>To: Permaculture List
>>>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>>>I wish it were possible, Kaia, to concentrate
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>on gardening and "take no
>> 
>>
>>>thought for tomorrow."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>permaculture mailing list
>>>permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> 
>
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>
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>
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