[nafex] OT a bit- Saving hybrid seed (corn)

Naomi Counides naomi at oznayim.us
Thu Jun 5 10:22:57 EDT 2014


I am not that ambitious as to create a new variety.  The reason for
selecting 3 ears is that between eating time and seed time, something might
happen to a single ear that would cause it to be unusable or gone.  2 is
back-up and 3 is back-back-up.
Naomi

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
Kacalanos via nafex
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 7:39 AM
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Subject: Re: [nafex] OT a bit- Saving hybrid seed (corn)

This year, all your corn plants are pretty much genetically identical, so it
doesn't matter how many plants you save seed from. In future generations,
number of plants will be an issue, as the F2 and later plants will be
genetically different from each other. 

If you want to create a variety that's a population, one hybrid won't
provide enough diversity. It contains the genes of just two inbreds. I can
see crossing it with an heirloom next year to bring in a population's worth
of genes, and then selecting for smut resistance and other traits you like
in subsequent generations, but this would be a pretty involved project, far
removed from, say, the simplicity of saving tomato seeds. I don't want to
discourage you, as amateur plant breeders can accomplish a lot, but breeding
a population takes effort. 

Melissa

Sent from my iPhone (pardon my brevity). 

> On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:30 AM, "Naomi Counides" <naomi at oznayim.us> wrote:
> 
> No I am not planning to go commercial, so I probably will not have to 
> do time for plant patent infringement.
> 
> What attracts me to the Tuxedo is  smut resistance in a sweet corn 
> that it is not white, does have good flavor, good tip cover and a good
sized ear.
> 
> I was planning to save maybe 3 ears out of the approximately 100 
> plants in my garden this year.  It is too late to do another variety along
with it.
> If I understand single seed descent.. three ears is not it.  Now If 
> the tuxedo develops any smut this year.. I am not saving a single 
> seed.  (and I will be saved from a life of crime)
> 
> I have been trying to find other smut resistant non-white, tasty sweet 
> corn varieties.  So far I have found these but I am not sure I can 
> actually get the seed.
> 
> Sweet Rhythm (HMX 3354BES) - Breeder: T.Natti. Vendor: Harris Moran.
> Characteristics: 70 day maturity, bicolor, dark green attractive husk,
7.5"
> ears, 16-18 rows, very good eating quality, has se and shrunken-2 
> endosperm on the ear, good seedling vigor. Resistance: tolerance to 
> stewarts wilt, common smut. Similar: Seneca Brave.
> 
> Sweet Symphony (HMX2349BES) - Breeder: T.Natti. Vendor: Harris Moran.
> Characteristics: 75 day maturity, bicolor, good husk cover, fair flag 
> leaves, light green color, 7-7.5" ears, good tip fill, sometimes a 
> small tassel tip, good sweetness and flavor with se and shrunken-2
kernels.
> Resistance: tolerance to common smut, stewarts wilt. Similar: Harmony.
> 
> The Tuxedo is in England. 
> 
> If I would cross next year, It would be a non-white good sized tasty 
> sweet corn without the smut resistance that I am hoping to retain.  Or 
> I could just order corn seed from England.
> Naomi
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex [mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of 
> Anton Callaway
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 7:25 PM
> To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
> Subject: Re: [nafex] OT a bit- Saving hybrid seed (corn)
> 
> Naomi,
> 
> Corn breeders typically use elite inbreds to make their hybrid seed.  
> They are also very protective of their germplasm.  I'd be more worried 
> about legal ramifications of saving the seed than inbreeding 
> depression in the early generations.  Assuming that this is not a 
> concern, in the F2 or F3 generation where you would be initially 
> growing, you will see a variety of phenotypes, but not inbreeding 
> depression yet.  If you took care to save a population of seed and 
> especially if you brought in another germplasm into the mix, you could 
> save a pool of seed that preserves the characteristics you like 
> without having a huge yield penalty.  I assume you don't plan to grow 
> this corn for commercial purposes.  If not, a small yield penalty even 
> many generations down the road would likely not be noticeable to a home
grower.
> 
> Just don't take it through single seed descent.  Then you will 
> definitely see inbreeding depression in later generations.
> 
> Anton
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Naomi Counides <naomi at oznayim.us>
>> Sent: Jun 3, 2014 8:18 AM
>> To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Subject: [nafex] OT a bit- Saving hybrid seed (corn)
>> 
>> I made a last minute decision to plant some sweet corn.  Found a 2007 
>> package of Tuxedo in the bottom of my seed box.  Pre-sprouted it and 
>> it worked.  So I planted it.  Then I looked up Tuxedo.  I found that 
>> it was a smut resistant yellow sweet corn with good tip cover and 
>> good eating qualities, Sugar Enhanced hybrid and the only seed source 
>> is in
> England.
>> http://www.halcyonplants.co.uk/index.php?page=product_details
>> <http://www.halcyonplants.co.uk/index.php?page=product_details&produc
>> t_
>> id=13
>> 48> &product_id=1348  So. if I want to try and save seed from this 
>> 48> year and
>> maybe work toward stabilizing it, what are my challenges?  How should 
>> I proceed?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Or, I am not really that hooked into it.  I would settle for the name 
>> of another smut resistant yellow or bicolor sweet corn that tastes 
>> very
> good.
>> 
>> Naomi
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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