[NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

Michael Dossett phainopepla at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 20 21:52:39 EDT 2009


I wouldn't think that mycorhizal fungi would help much with apple replant either.  I suppose it wouldn't surprise me to hear a slight beneficial effect of stronger trees being able to resist the nematode attacks, but I would think the greatest potential benefits would be with other fungi that would offer some competitive exclusion.
 
Michael Dossett Corvallis, Oregon www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla at yahoo.com

--- On Fri, 3/20/09, dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com <dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com> wrote:


From: dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com <dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 6:44 PM


 
Michael,
 
Our trials we have been doing on apple replant disease (harmful nematodes left in the spoil from previous apple trees) have not indicated that  mycorhizal fungi offer any protection of this soil bourne disease after a year.  We will find out this year if our cover crop trials will fair better when we plant our new trees in April.
 
Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
Office (815) 648-4467
Mobile (815) 228-2174
Fax (609) 228-2174
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
http://www.revivalhymn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael Dossett 
To: North American Fruit Explorers 
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice






mycorhizal fungi should help protect the trees from soil born pathogens, and I suspect would have a bigger impact on small seedlings being attached by things like Pythium.  I don't think there is any evidence however that mycorhizal fungi do anything to protect against foliar pathogens such as scab and cedar apple rust.  They may help make the tree stronger so that those pathogens don't weaken it as readily but will do nothing to stop those infections.
 
Michae
 
Michael Dossett Corvallis, Oregon www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla at yahoo.com

--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Kevin Moore <aleguy33 at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Kevin Moore <aleguy33 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice
To: dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com, "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 8:37 AM



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MARGIN:0px;}



I haven't experimented with the trees most Nafexers seem to grow. I'm too far south, but it seems to me that innoculating your trees with endomorphic and mycorhizal fungi should protect it from other fungi for their entire lives without the need for expensive fungicide sprays. The trees would be more resistant to environmental stresses and produce better.





From: "dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com" <dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

 


Alan,
 

The  protectants such as an EBDC or Captan are non-systemic and actually kill spores as they germinate before they have a chance to infect the plant.  They poison the metabolism of fungal cells at many levels.  Since they are multisite (multi-level) and fungi would have to develop multiple mutations to overcome them, resistance is unlikely.  So I go for the kill with the first spray since the leaves are just beginning to grow. At green tip, there isn't much leaf there to absorb a systemic spray like an SI. 
 
The Strobilurins (Flint/Sovran) have single-site mode of action and that makes them prone to resistance development.  With Sterol Inhibitors (Nova/Rally) that inhibit different points in the sterol synthesis pathway, resistance development tends to be more gradual, but is still possible none the less.  Since they are systemic, they will penetrate the leaf which gives them some "reach back" effect and I think are better used after 1/2" green.
 
Right now, Dithane is cheaper than Captan plus you shouldn't use Captan within 10 days of an oil spray.  We always have issues when we spray oil and try to follow-up with Captan due to the weather, so that is another reason I choose an EBDC for the first spray in the years we spray oil.  It gives me a bit more flexibility. 
 
Because of the resistance issues, I'm using an anti-resistant scab management program based on rotating different classes of fungicides.  Here's my timing breakdown:
 
GREEN TIP - 1 to 2 applications of an Captan or EBDC (Dithane)  at full rate
 
PREEBLOOM - 1 to 2 applications of a Strobilurin (Flint or Sovran) or an EBDC or Captan or an EBDC & Captan (each at 1/2 rate)
 
PINK & BLOOM - 1 to 2 applications of an SI (Rally - Nova is now Rally) mixed with an EBDC or Captan (1/2 rate) or EBDC OR EBDC or Captan (full rate)
 
PETAL FALL, FIRST COVER - 1 to 2 applications of a Strobilurin (Flint or Sovran) OR Captan (EBDC cannot be used after Bloom)
 
SUMMER - Classic protectant except an EBDC such as Captan or Pristine (carboxamide and a strobilurin)
 
I'm sure you know all of this, but I went into a bit more information for the benefit of those who are not aware of the differences between the various fungicide sprays.  I would be interested in knowing what approach you take in scab management. 
 
     
Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
Office (815) 648-4467
Mobile (815) 228-2174
Fax (609) 228-2174
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
http://www.revivalhymn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alan Haigh 
To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:26 AM
Subject: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice


Dennis, your explanation of oil application was comprehensive and articulate- I made a copy for my files.  I have a question- why do you prefer using an EBDC over an SI in early spray?  I can't see the advantage to mancozeb over say, myclobutinil.

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