[NAFEX] Red Fleshed apples
Martha L. Davis
martha_davis at earthlink.net
Tue Jan 15 11:02:30 EST 2008
Thanks a lot for all your info. Zone 4 are our test winters. The temperatures throughout the winter here are probably more erratic than yours, at least based on my memories of Michigan. Warmer winters are more common, but not always. We have cool summers with low growing degree days probably cooler than you unless you are getting a lot of lake influence.
I am getting the impression that cooler summer produce more coloring in the pink fleshed apples. Perhaps that is what was going on with your Pink Princess. Maybe one was in a slightly cooler or more shaded location.
I am especially glad to get descriptions of Glowing heart as there is very little info out there about it. Did Janson develop other pink/Red fleshed varieties that I should know about? There is something called Glowing Coal that I was wondering about.
It sounds like Hidden Rose may be especially good for our cool summers we'll see about the drought. It sounds like I should try Pink Princess.
Do you know where your Niedswetskyana Crab selection came from? I am beginning to realize that it is not really an apple variety name as much as it is various apples of the same species or perhaps a subgroup within Malus pumila. Gordon Tooley says his are all over the map as far as flower color size and so forth.
>From: Biz Storms <biz.storms at sympatico.ca>
>Sent: Jan 10, 2008 8:41 PM
>To: "'Martha L. Davis'" <martha_davis at earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: [NAFEX] Red Fleshed apples
>Sorry about the time lag in responding to this topic. I have been off-line
>for many months and just returned yesterday.
>We have many redflesh varieties and are located north of Toronto in what we
>consider to be Zone 5 in summer and Zone 4 in winter, due to massive
>Here's what we have encountered for different varieties.
>Pink Pearl - both M.26 and M.111 do very well, and we had fruit the second
>year on the M.26. We've had two consecutive hot and dry summers, so the
>apples didn't size up as large as the first fruiting year. We've enjoyed
>it's sweet/tart taste, but it doesn't keep for very long.
>Pink Princess - the M.26 trees have developed nicely with fairly sturdy
>branches that require minimal training. The apples are about 50% larger than
>Pink Pearl, and the flesh is very crisp, juicy and dense. Two of the trees
>had lovely pink splotches through the fruit, but the third tree showed no
>pink whatsoever. Since the fruit is otherwise identical, we may either have
>a random sport or perhaps a pollination issue. It has a sweeter taste than
>the Pink Pearl, and this year's apples kept nicely, bagged in the fridge,
>for five to six weeks.
>Glowing Heart - is the second red flesh variety that Fred Janson created,
>and he only started to circulate scionwood in the last year or two before he
>passed away. The apples resemble a huge plum or beet, both inside and out,
>rather like the Niedswetskyana Crab, but it took until the fourth year to
>have any of the fruits reach maturity. They ripened over a weekend at the
>end of August, and were quite tart. We suspect the hot, dry weather
>accelerated the ripening too quickly, and it didn't help the taste. We'll
>have to see what happens this summer.
>Niedswetskyana Crab - we have this on M.111 and it has grown really quickly.
>We had 15 apples appear its second year, even on M.111, so we thinned them
>down to three. They loved the heat and quickly grew to 3 1/5 by 3 1/2 inch
>fruits - certainly not crab size at all. They went past ripe before we
>realized it, so they were added to the applesauce with really great colour
>results. On a curious note, while the other apples broke down and melted
>into sauce, the pieces of the Nied. Crab remained almost spongy and had to
>be pressed flat with the spoon to break down.
>The Hidden Rose - on M.26 has also been slow to fruit, which seems to be the
>story with almost all of the red flesh apples. It really didn't like the
>heat and drought, so we ended up with golf ball size apples with medium pink
>splotches through the flesh. Thinning was definitely called for, which we
>will remember for this summer. The branches are on the thinner side, like
>the Pink Pearl, and the blossoms are gorgeous.
>The remaining dozen or so varieties have not yet fruited, again being one to
>two years slower to bear on M.26, or they are on M.111.
>Our big disappointment has been the Surprise apple. We've tried it on M.26,
>twice, and on M.111, and they have all failed. One of the M.26's was nailed
>by the deer, which didn't help - but all three didn't make it past the first
>winter. I'm going to give Surprise one final try, as a branch on another
>tree, but it seems not to like the Zone 4 winters.
>Martha, I hope this info is helpful, given the difference in dampness
>between our respective winters. The redflesh apples are just so cool, and
>it's fun to see people's reactions. I'd certainly be interested in comparing
>notes about growing info and apple characteristics.
>From: nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>[mailto:nafex-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Martha L. Davis
>Sent: January 5, 2008 8:14 PM
>To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: [NAFEX] Red Fleshed apples
>I have gotten more interested in red fleshed apples and it has been a few
>years since I have seen much discussion on them maybe it is is time for
>another go round.
>Many places say that the coloring is climate dependent. Ed said less color
>as they go south. I assume that is temperature based rather than day-length
>based. A lot of them seem to be fairly tart to sweet tart, some (many?)
>too tart for fresh eating. Ed said that Pink Pearl and Hidden Rose were the
>ones he had experience with that had detectable sugars. A description of
>the Niedzwetzkyana Crab pie got my attention. Supposedly like cherry pie
>but whether that was color or flavor or both I don't know. I have also heard
>it is 3 inches in diameter too large to be called crab. I have also hear
>that it is a good tannin source for cider.
>I have been poking around in books and on the web. Here is something of a
>variety list which I don't have much experience with. I have tasted Pink
>Pearl twice. Once as grown in California it was OK another time when grown
>in Indiana it thought it was bitter. I tried Grenadine at the California
>tasting a few years ago and that was good but not outstanding. Not
>something I would think about without the color. Based on what I have dug up
>some are very hardy zone 3 some zone 6 some who knows. A fair number appear
>to bloom early &/or get scab.
>Has anyone experience with any of these? I am especially interested in
>Hardiness many of the California ones list zone 6. I'd like zone 4. I m
>also especially interested in which ones are worth eating fresh or really
>good for cooking as opposed to, I might as well make sauce because what else
>can I do with it.
>Alamata, Burford Red Flesh, Bill's red flesh(aka Scarlet Surprise) Hidden
>Rose (AKA Aerlie Red Flesh), Firecracker, Geneva crab, Giant Russian may be
>the same as Russian Giant Crab, Grenadine, Niedzwetzkyana, Pink Pearmain(AKA
>Pink Sparkle), Pink Pairfait, Mott's Pink, Pink Parfait (Motts), (I'm not
>sure if these three are the same), Pink Princess (same as Jansen's Pink Lady
>not same as Cripp's Pink Pink Lady), Pink Old Lady, Purple Passion, Raven,
>Red Field, Thornberry, Rubiyat, Winter Red fleshed. I haven't included
>many of the ones that seem to be pale pink or pink stained.
>Zone 4 high elevation New Mexico Cool summers with a short season
>nafex mailing list
>nafex at lists.ibiblio.org
>Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
>This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web
>Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
>**YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
>Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
>To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be used
>to change other email options):
>File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
>TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
>Please do not send binary files.
>Use plain text ONLY in emails!
>NAFEX web site: http://www.nafex.org/
More information about the nafex