[NAFEX] How many on listserv?
cgarriss at garriss.net
Sat Feb 16 12:55:00 EST 2008
The admin of the list has full access to the member list, and can tell
you how many members there are.
On 16.02.2008 12:58 Mark & Helen Angermayer spoke thusly:
> There has been a lot of discussion about the ibiblio listserv bringing folks
> into Nafex. I understand there are about 1500 members of Nafex. I'd be
> curious if anyone knows how many people are registered to use the listserv
> (for the record one does not have to be a paying member to use the listserv,
> and as long as ibiblio has been hosting the listserv it has never been any
> other way.)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Garriss" <>
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Copying Electronic Pomonas
>> I wonder how many of the people involved in this discussion (especially
>> about the listserv) have ever looked at the site that hosts this list?
>> Ibiblio.org...if you look at the ibiblio home page, right at the top you
>> see (except there are graphics):
>> ibiblio the public's library and digital archive
>> a collaboration of the School of Information and Library Science and the
>> School of Journalism and Mass Communication at The University of North
>> Carolina - Chapel Hill
>> Reading a bit further you see:
>> Home to one of the largest "collections of collections" on the Internet,
>> ibiblio.org is a conservancy of freely available information, including
>> software, music, literature, art, history, science, politics, and
>> cultural studies. ibiblio.org is a collaboration of the School of
>> Information and Library Science <http://sils.unc.edu/> and the School of
>> Journalism and Mass Communication <http://www.jomc.unc.edu/> at The
>> University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill <http://www.unc.edu>.
>> ACCESS TO AND USE OF THE ibiblio.org INTERNET SERVER IS SUBJECT TO THE
>> FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS:All software, documentation, research
>> data, and other materials ("Materials") submitted for installation on
>> the ibiblio.org Internet Server will be deemed in the public domain,
>> except for any express restrictions included in such Materials by the
>> submitting party. The University of North Carolina ("UNC") is not
>> responsible for providing notice of or enforcing any such restrictions.
>> All parties submitting Materials to the ibiblio.org Internet Server
>> represent and warrant to UNC that the submission, installation, copying,
>> distribution, and use of such Materials in connection with the
>> MetaLab.unc.edu Internet Server will not violate any other party's
>> proprietary rights. UNC is not responsible for any errors created in or
>> damage to the Materials as a result of their installation or maintenance
>> on the Internet Server, or their use by anyone accessing the Internet
>> Since I work at the aforementioned university, I am quite familiar with
>> It seems to me that ibiblio does for many areas what I view the NAFEX
>> list as doing for a single area: educating, coaching, sharing
>> information, encouraging others. No, I am not a current NAFEX member,
>> yes I was for a number of years. However, I found that I was less and
>> less interested in Pomona and the articles and more and more interested
>> in the camaraderie, information exchange (more or less real time) and
>> targeted information on the list. The list represents a vibrant lively
>> forum. I would not like to see the list become closed, available to
>> members only, etc. And I think that would by oppositional to the site
>> that has hosted it for quite some time now. Might I again become a
>> NAFEX member? Perhaps. Do I think an electronic version of Pomona has
>> merit? Yes, it saves paper, postage and a host of other things. It
>> could be handled as a PDF and e-mailed to the paid members - most of
>> whom I would presume have internet access. Perhaps you could have one
>> price for the electronic version, another if someone wanted paper. You
>> could archive and make available to members the back copies of Pomona.
>> There are a host of alternatives.
>> Just my 2 cents worth.
>> Chris Garriss
>> On 14.02.2008 08:50 William C. Garthright spoke thusly:
>>>> How do we control the Mullah so he sends only to people who can't
>>>> honestly afford membership? That is one problem. There are also just
>>>> as many, maybe more, dishonest Americans than in allthestans.
>>> Personally, I think you're worrying FAR too much about this hypothetical
>>> band of rogue fruit-lovers who can't wait to get their hands on a
>>> bootleg copy of "Pomona." Are you also that worried about libraries? Or
>>> about members who pass their copy on to a friend after reading it? Most
>>> organizations - and even some businesses - consider this to be good
>>> And if you think about it, these fruit-enthusiast thieves would have to
>>> be current members of NAFEX, people actually dropping their membership
>>> because they can steal a free issue, before this would do NAFEX any harm
>>> at all. Assuming some mastermind actually bootlegs "Pomona" to
>>> fruit-lovers all across the world (the mind boggles), that actually
>>> means that he'd be fulfilling NAFEX's goal of education even better than
>>> we're doing now. How would this be a problem, even in the unlikely event
>>> it would happen? Are we just that obsessed with the idea that someone,
>>> somewhere might be getting something for nothing?
>>> I don't know how many people are on this email list, but with all the
>>> great information available here, I suspect that it furthers NAFEX's
>>> goals even better than "Pomona," especially considering that the
>>> archives are available online. And I'm sure some people on this list
>>> aren't members of NAFEX. I wasn't, at first. But why is that a problem?
>>> Most of these people no doubt have a far more casual interest in fruit
>>> than our typical member, at least right now. If you kick them off the
>>> list, they won't join NAFEX. They'll just get their free information
>>> elsewhere. If the list stays open to them, they might get hooked on
>>> fruit, and THEN they're likely to join.
>>> If you want to share your love for fruit, then share your love for
>>> fruit. Why the huge concern that someone might be getting information
>>> free? Or the really bizarre concern about bootlegging "Pomona" to the
>>> rest of the world? I just don't get it. Do you really think that
>>> increased restrictions within the group will *increase* membership? That
>>> was the whole point of this original discussion, that membership in
>>> NAFEX is HALF what it used to be. I suspect that the vast majority of
>>> the world - the vast majority of people even in North America - have
>>> never heard of NAFEX. Maybe we actually need a bootlegger to get the
>>> word out for us.
>>> IMHO, making NAFEX more secretive and less open to prospective members
>>> is exactly the wrong direction. We don't join NAFEX because information
>>> is not available elsewhere. There's more information already available
>>> online than any of us have time to read. No, we join NAFEX to support
>>> the organization, to share our love of fruit-growing, and because we
>>> like the group and the people in it. There is *way* too much concern
>>> here that someone else might be getting something for nothing.
>>> Just my opinion, of course. Things are different in the Internet age. We
>>> must recognize that and evolve, or die out like the dinosaurs.
>>> Lincoln, NE
>>> *PS. Many publishers post full copies of their books online - entirely
>>> free. Check out Baen Books, for example. (
>>> http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm ) Sure, a lot of people
>>> probably read these for free and never buy the book. But they feel that
>>> the publicity is worth it. If you try a book online, you might become a
>>> loyal fan of that author. And most people WILL buy books. I've read
>>> these, because it's a great way to discover new authors. These are
>>> commercial enterprises, for-profit book publishers, who are posting
>>> these. Why would we worry more about disseminating free information than
>>> they do?
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