[nafex] Granny Smith apple

jim jmc1 at epix.net
Mon Dec 11 12:11:29 EST 2000


Bramley's Seedling is a triploid.  You may have noticed that seed count
typically is fewer than 3, with additional empty seed husks.  Like other
triploids, the few seeds produced are, with rare exceptions, aneuploid;
chromosome numbers are usually between 35 and 45.  Few of the seeds will
germinate, and almost all of those few seedlings will have small,
strap-like leaves -- looks much like roundup damage.

The odds against Granny Smith deriving from Bramley's Seedling are far
greater than the odds against George Patataki voting for Hillary Clinton
last month.

//Jim
www.cumminsnursery.com


dwalsh/wchase wrote:

>   According to Morgan and Richards The Book of Apples: A Mrs Smith,
> born in England in 1800, emigrated to Australia in 1838. In 1860s she
> found some seedlings growing in a creek where she had tipped out some
> apples brought back from Sydney. Tree was propagated and later family
> increased their orchards and marketed fruit in Sydney.  Apples
> exported from Sydney to Britain in 1930s       (There is no mention of
> Bramley's Seedling being involved.  Bramley's and Granny Smith look
> and taste very different). According to Martin Crawford's Directory of
> Apple Cultivars:  Reine des Pommes is a cider (bittersweet) apple from
> Brittany, blooms early, pick in November, greenish-yellow flushed dark
> red, moderate vigour, good cropper, no parentage given. Derry Derry
> Walsh & Bill Chase  email:wchase at interchange.ubc.ca
> Aldergrove,  B. C.,  Canada
> phone/fax (604) 856-9316
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> Home web page  http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/wchase/HTML
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: H. Dessureault
>      To: nafex at egroups.com
>      Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 6:28 PM
>      Subject: Re: [nafex] Sutton Beauty apple
>       Hi,I find your discussion on varieties very interesting.I
>      imagine Bramley to be a parent of Granny Smith, is that
>      so?Would you happen to know about Reine des pommes?Some
>      information would be very appreciated. H. DessureaultQuébec,
>      Zone 3a -----Message d'origine-----
>      De : dwalsh/wchase <wchase at interchange.ubc.ca>
>      À : nafex at egroups.com <nafex at egroups.com>
>      Date : dimanche 10 décembre 2000 19:06
>      Objet : [nafex] Sutton Beauty appleClaude,
>
>      I had to go to the books again to see if I could find
>      anything on Dumelow or
>      Wellington.
>
>      Acc to Martin Crawford, Dumelow Seedling comes from England,
>      is a cooker, and is a
>      Northern Greenling seedling.
>
>      A friend has the Apples of NY as well as all sorts of good
>      reference books.
>
>      She says the US germplasm repository (from before the
>      Internet) lists Sutton and
>      Sutton Beauty, so that
>      variety is not lost to the world.
>      She also says that Aof NY says it is an error
>      to consider Wellington and Dumelow as synonyms of SB.  I
>      think I understood from
>      her that Wellington and Dumelow Seedling and Dumelow's crab
>      are synonyms of one
>      another and Sutton Beauty has many synonyms including Sutton
>      and Morris Red.
>      Sutton Beauty
>      is a seedling of Hubbardson Nonsuch.   Hubbardson Nonsuch is
>      also listed as a
>      synonym of SB, but A of NY says it is not a 'synonym', but a
>      'seedling of'.
>      Apparently the picture of Sutton Beauty in A of NY is of a
>      very nice-looking
>      apple.  It came out of Massachusetts in 1848.Also Sutton
>      Beauty is an eating apple
>      (vs Dumelow which is a cooker)
>
>      However, I went onto the US germplasm Repository site and
>      there is no listing of
>      Sutton or Sutton Beauty or Morris Red. There is a listing of
>      Wellington, but this
>      is presumably a US Wellington, not the British one.
>
>      I also checked the US Germplasm site for 'Winter' and
>      'Winter Dessert'.  No sign
>      of either.     Winter is probably a generic name, or a short
>      form of one of the
>      many apples having 'winter' as part of their name.
>
>      These searches are interesting,
>
>      Thanks for your input,
>
>      Derry
>
>      Derry Walsh & Bill Chase  email:wchase at interchange.ubc.ca
>      Aldergrove,  B. C.,  Canada
>      phone/fax (604) 856-9316
>      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>      ~
>      Home web page  http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/wchase/HTML
>      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>      ~
>      : Derry,
>      : Looking in my documentation, I don't find anything on
>      Winter or Winter
>      : Dessert. However, from Beach's Apples of NY, Sutton Beauty
>      is a synonym for
>      : those 2 varieties:
>      : Dumelow (also called Wellington), a yellow English cooker,
>
>      : Sutton, a seedling of Hubbardston prior to 1850, orig.
>      Mass.
>      ::
>      : Claude
>
>
>
>
>
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