[Homestead] Heinlein, was SE PA going
bobford79 at yahoo.com
Mon Nov 17 14:41:30 EST 2008
Okay Dr. Bev, put down your psycologist's hat. This cigar is just a cigar :-), as far as my initial posting. I 've always liked that quotation as well as this one of Mencken's:
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--- On Mon, 11/17/08, EarthNSky <erthnsky at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> From: EarthNSky <erthnsky at bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Heinlein, was SE PA going
> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 11:47 AM
> I wrote something on this a minute ago, then deleted it,
> then wrote
> again, then deleted it again. Ok, so I am writing this
> time...Call this,
> the other side of the coin, the side less obvious.
> Yes, it does make sense in one light, but not in another
> light. It
> could even be some of what is wrong with society, that as
> long as people
> think they can, they will. I know this is talking about
> breaking rules,
> but it can be extended to people.
> In the old days, when 99% of all people were
> Christian(no Sikhs,
> Hindus, etc), the way a person was held "morally
> responsible" was by his
> community of like believers. Today, not only it is rare to
> find a 'like
> believer', you can't find a community that would
> agree on what is
> morally responsible. Look at the recent posts on
> Greenpeace and Sea
> Shepherd as an example. Two orgs with the same goal, and
> yet, they
> differ on responsibility. This list is another, yet
> example...people have similar interests, but no leadership,
> moderation, you can write anything here and there is no
> moral consequence.
> There is no longer banishment, scarlet letters, social
> pariahs, etc. and
> while you can still be excommunicated, it just doesn't
> hold the same
> punch. The individual is left on his own. This "I am
> free to do as I
> please" mentality becomes anarchy and lawlessness.
> I'd bet that Bill
> Ayers and Ted Stevens love that quote-they, too, have that
> that I can do whatever I want...I'm free..I can break
> and only I am morally responsible. The problem is, that
> some people
> have the audacity<g> to have no morals. When Ayers
> can sit back and say
> that his actions never hurt anyone(even if you believe him,
> I think you
> could make a case that they surely negatively affected
> Obama's campaign
> aides..lol), when Stevens, after being convicted of a
> felony, can refuse
> to resign then you begin to see the other side of this.
> Pick a
> controversial story in the political arena and you should
> see the other
> Now Gene, I am not saying you are like this. I know you
> are not. I
> know you are a responsible human being from a generation
> that truly does
> hold itself to a higher moral standard-but not everyone is
> like you.
> What I am saying is that to believe this quote as a mantra
> is dangerous
> thinking. There will be an element of society(ever
> growing, ever
> increasing element since most people have no community to
> moderate their
> behavior) who believes they are more than sovereign, they
> will believe
> they are above the law. That is the danger. Also, that is
> not tolerance.
> I like Heinlein, and even quote him myself occasionally.
> Before you
> jump on me for my seemingly contrary post, I ask you to
> this...knowing that Heinlein was a great satirist and often
> wrote about
> social condition, politics and such, don't you think it
> is possible that
> his quote reflects my view _and_ yours-that we were
> intended to think
> about our 'free actions' and where it all might
> lead us in a futuristic
> world? I think it is a lot more complex that just being a
> sovereign being.
> Here's another quote from someone...
> Freedom ain't free.
> Gene GeRue wrote:
> >> " I am free, no matter what rules surround
> me. If I find them
> >> tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too
> obnoxious, I break
> >> them. I am free because I know that I alone am
> morally responsible
> >> for everything I do."
> > This is some of what I mean when I say that we are
> sovereign beings.
> “Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger.
> Anger leads to
> hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda
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