[Homestead] More to it; was RE: Welcome to the United Socialist States
rayzentz at aim.com
rayzentz at aim.com
Wed Nov 12 10:58:15 EST 2008
Hey, Bob, we actually agree on a lot of things.? The fact that you are a total flake <g> on some others is indeed OK. It gives me room to try to improve you <bg>. Those that totally disagree with me are beyond redemption, and of course are going to hell <even bigger grin>
Seriously, I have lots of friends that believe differently than I, to varying degrees. I accept them, as long as they do not try to force their views on me. I reciprocate by not trying to force my views on them. Discussion, I love. Explanation, I love. Brainwashing, I abhor. Even with those of my faith.
I have been a "Gospel Doctrine" teacher in my faith on several occasions. I often rattle the cages of the members of my classes, in order to get them to leave behind the platitudes they learned when they were three or four, and apply thought and <gasp> logic to their beliefs. Some have a real hard time doing that, because they have never learned to think. I believe the way I do not only because of faith, though I certainly have that, but because I have examined my core beliefs, compared them with other beliefs and philosophies, and made a choice. For many years, I was NOT a good little Mormon boy.
Many of my peers in the church really do not know how to deal with me. <g>
From: bob ford <bobford79 at yahoo.com>
To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 6:26 am
Subject: Re: [Homestead] More to it; was RE: Welcome to the United Socialist States
That might have been true of your youth, when 'traditional' was the dominant
cultural appeal. That is simply no longer the case. Now left wing zealots
dominate the culture. The reason that ,politically ,i feel more at home with the
right wing types is becuase, 'today', they are more receptive to the ideas of
others. I'll us Ray as an example. He is someone we both now , on this list ,
and is of the temperament that I don't think he will mind.
Ray is a right-wing, conservative 'believing' Mormon. He can accept that I
believe in homeosexual marriage; (don't really believe in statist marraige at
all); I believe the right to bear arms is 'absolute' under the Consttution; I
believe that all religion 'must' be allowed to be freely practiced, but that no
'state religion' can be created; that corporate media is a shill for
I believe that the BIll of Rights grants us nothing, but, instead, acknowledges
and protects natural rights that were already ours; I believe completely in the
basics of evolution, but also believe it is okay to explain the science to
children in a way that can be empathetic to their spiritual beliefs. I have no
moral objections to abortion, but once a fetus can live on its own, I believe in
has acquired natural and Constitutional rights, and on, and, on, and on.
If I go to a left wing person, and try to be accepted into their political
group, they are going to try to force me to change some of those beliefs while
keeping the ones they approve. Not so, for right wing libetarian groups.
The leftists have become demoniant in our society, not the right wing. In our
youth, it was different. I have no fear of right wing religious people. I do
have fear of the zealotry of the group-think left.
I don't, anymore than you , believe BO desires to set up a tyranny. I do ,
however, expect him to explain himself when others question authority. On this
list, Keith has a signature that goes something like "you will be judged by your
words". BO's words have made some nervous; a few better placed words in reply
is very little to ask ....in my opinion......bobford
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] More to it; was RE: Welcome to the United Socialist
> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 6:00 AM
> > I just think it is part of the worldview of the left to
> note and report on
> > groups that deviate from the calibration of PC
> acceptability. It comes
> > quite natural to such a mind-set. I don't think
> he meant anything
> > otherwise sinister. But, sinister 'can'
> cloaked in the cloak of something
> > acceptable.
> Bob; I honestly don't understand where you get this.
> I've always been a
> little left-leaning, and it seems to me that it's the
> right that condems any
> deviation from tradition. Look at the religious right...so
> wanting to legislate others to be like them. Remember I was
> a bit "hippyish"
> in the 1970's, and believe me, it wasn't the
> liberals who wanted to squash
> that movement...my school actually banned bell bottoms at
> one point, simply
> because they represented...what? Free thought? Freedom of
> expression? To me,
> the left has always been "live and let live",
> "do your own thing". In my
> life, the left are more often the ones BEING reported, not
> the ones doing
> the reporting.
> Lynn Wigglesworth
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