genegerue at ruralize.com
Sat Feb 23 13:55:28 EST 2008
On Feb 23, 2008, at 7:43 AM, Clansgian at wmconnect.com wrote:
> Gene, all that global food is being moved about with oil. In fact
> almost all
> of it is being grown with oil (and natural gas).
Yes, indeed. Our previous exchange went like this:
>> I have more citrus than I will consume before it rots. How shall we
>> solve the 2,000-mile transport energy issue?
You responded: Personally, of course, you won't. But it is a proper
use of whatever
transportation we have to ship citrus in season to places where it is
grow. . . .
"It is a proper use of whatever transportation we have" translated to
me as you not caring much about the oil.
> Already I'm monitoring the
> stories of food panic in remote places . . . .
As much as we wimpy, spoiled Americans complain about prices, we are
as food gods compared to citizens of many other countries.
>>> Homesteading barely
>>> works for a very small number. It is impossible on a national scale.
> It works for us small in number because of our very modest
> lifestyles. It
> would make a very good discussion on this list to examine the notion
> that it is
> impossible on a national scale.
I did the math years ago. Do a quick calculation on garden space and
woodlot acreage required per person. Multiply by 303.5 million. Apply
that number to the acreage within that part of the country with an
adequate growing season.
> But agribusiness as we know it will come to
> an end with the end of cheap fossil fuel. If indeed homesteading,
> or something
> very like it, is impossible, then that is the same thing as saying
> living will be impossible as well.
Living--as we know it--may well be unsustainable already. The primary
issue is population. Logic says we must be fewer in number; emotion
and religion dictate the opposite. Do you recall the discussion Lee
led regarding how food production and population has been parallel
throughout history? Population on Earth was relatively stable for
centuries. Then agriculture flourished. That led to greater
population. As oil runs out, food production will decrease. As food
production decreases, there will be a concomitant decrease in
population. Just as any country acre has a carrying capacity, the
pattern is true throughout nature.
>>> Take a deep breath and inspect your computer for country of
> That's an often used red herring. That is, if we were all localists
> regionalists, where would we get computers from?
Pick any manufactured product. We could all do with far less
technology than we now use. That is not the issue. The issue is what
people want, not just computers but giant TV screens, surround sound
with wireless speakers, three vehicles, twenty pairs of shoes, closets
full of seldom-worn clothing. What people want, politicians strive to
provide. That's how they keep their jobs. One of the things I learned
from reading Alan Greenspan's book is that presidents commonly ignore
sound economic advice, but instead play to the voters.
Other than helping to resist Alzheimer's, it seems to me that it is of
little use to even debate the issue of globalism. Every human animal
wants all they can get with as little labor as possible to get it.
Only in areas where religious beliefs dictate thusly is minimal
consumerism held in high regard. Right now most of the world's people
want to emulate our lifestyle. It is a wave that cannot be held back.
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