[Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint
Branden C
aktisskeelo at hotmail.com
Sun Apr 6 22:14:21 EDT 2008
Hello, Recent Lurker here.
It's not so much that physicians "give" insurance companies discounts.
The Insurance Companies set fee schedules, ie. what they will pay for a given service, for your particular geographic area. The physician accepts that amount or he/she will not accept that insurance.
But it gets more complicated. Medicaid/Medicare does the same. However they determine among other things what % they will pay for a given service. That is why the cash fee for service is greater.
One other thing. Not all Medicaid/Medicare Fraud is "fraud". If someone sees a physician, and he comps that patient... say pay what you can... or dont worry about paying for this visit. And Medicaid does a review of that physician's office payments... they can literally say fraud has been done to the goverment because they are paying a certain % of a cash payment, but here the physician is providing services for free...
Branden> From: homestead-request at lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Homestead Digest, Vol 45, Issue 15> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:47:49 -0400> > Send Homestead mailing list submissions to> homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> homestead-request at lists.ibiblio.org> > You can reach the person managing the list at> homestead-owner at lists.ibiblio.org> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Homestead digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (clhw)> 2. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Marie McHarry)> 3. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Lynda)> 4. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Clansgian at wmconnect.com)> 5. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (clhw)> 6. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (clhw)> 7. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Gene GeRue)> 8. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Gene GeRue)> 9. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (SJC)> 10. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Clansgian at wmconnect.com)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 14:16:32 -0400> From: clhw at infoave.net (clhw)> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <v02130501c41ea37f9e3b@[64.53.36.12]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > Insurance is legalized gambling in which the insurance policy purchaser> bets the insurance company that he, the purchaser will lose. You only win> on health insurance if you get sick and need financial help. You only win> on car insurance if you have a wreck or damage done to your vehicle. You> only win on life insurance if you die young.> > The insurance company bets against the purchaser based on its tables of> probability. What is the probability that a 30-year-old will keel over dead> of unknown causes? Or that he/she will have a wreck which "totals" their> car? Especially since, if the purchaser has a poor driving record, the> rates are higher? The insurance company takes into account whether or not> the purchaser has taken driver's training, has a B or higher average, is> enrolled full-time in high school, etc.> > Insurance is always a losing deal for the purchaser unless they fall prey> to whatever they are insuring against at an early age and with devastating> results. Insurance has caused a large portion of the increase of medical> charges. Part of the squabbling over HomeOwners' Association regulations is> caused by insurance.> > Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% reduction in charges to people who> carry no insurance. Why?> > Just my opinion.> > >What are your thoughts on the issue of insurance?> >> >*http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/magazine/06wwln-safire-t.html?ref=magazine> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:22:16 -0500> From: "Marie McHarry" <mmcharry at gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID:> <18c9df6e0804061122x13c29266wc493e22614a2d2ba at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > > Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% reduction in charges to people who> > carry no insurance. Why?> >> I don't know of a place where that is true. People who don't have> insurance are billed at a higher rate -- often substantially higher --> than people who are covered by insurance companies that have worked> out payment schedules with providers.> > Marie> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:25:28 -0800> From: "Lynda" <lurine at softcom.net>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: <homestead at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID: <003601c89824$8cec9a60$fd7b3542 at Moon>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";> reply-type=original> > Actually, the reverse is true. Non-insurance patients are charged the > *standard* rates. Insurance companies negotiate a rate which is lower than > the standard.> > Hospitals *rarely* discount for cash and it has to be cash up front. > *Some,* again *rare* doctors will discount for cash up front.> > *Sometimes,* again, not the rule but rather the exception, you can negotiate > the insurance rate on a bill with a hospital but usually only if you pay > within a very stort period of time.> > Lynda> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "clhw" <clhw at infoave.net>> > > >snip<> > Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% reduction in charges to people > > who> > carry no insurance. Why?> >> > Just my opinion.> >> >>What are your thoughts on the issue of insurance?> >>> >>*http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/magazine/06wwln-safire-t.html?ref=magazine> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > Homestead list and subscription:> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead> > Change your homestead list member options:> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/homestead/lurine%40softcom.net> > View the archives at:> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/homestead> >> > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:22:18 EDT> From: Clansgian at wmconnect.com> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <c63.2c6f8cc8.352a8afa at wmconnect.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"> > We carry liablity on our vehicles. The insurance company would pay us > nothing for the loss of our bottom-feeder vehicles anyway. But it takes the most > innocent tap on someone's car for them to claim all and sundry dire injuries. > So my conclustion has been that if gas and tags and such are the bare > essentials for driving, so is insurance. If ever the insurance becomes so odious that > I don't want it, I will stop driving.> > With the world oil situation, that could soon be a moot point anyway.> > Likewise house insurance, which also covers the farm, is pretty cheap here. > What this and the auto insurance means is that if I am bothered by someone's > claims, the insurance company can have the headaches.> > All my business is conducted through an LLC so any liability from that > quarter would garner the claimant and their sheisters nothing, as the well know and > so it is no temptation.> > Also Tennessee is one of the states in which all property is held by married > people as "tenancy by entirety". This means each spouse fully and separately > owns all communal property. If someone obtains judgement against me, Denise > still owns the all our property in its entirety and so it cannot be attached. > And vice versa. It behooves one to know if this is the case in your state. > Here is is automatic and in some states you can opt for it.> > As far as health insurance goes, the poeple who have expressed that cash > payers are charged MORE are entirely correct. That's to make a case that the > insurance companies are getting a bogus deep discount. When dental insurance was > uncommon, a filling cost $16. Just as soon as insurance covered it, the > average around here shot up to $80.> > The best insurance is live as well as you can, and that includes taking a > long hard look at the 'malady du jour' that everyone claims at any given time. > Spend the attention funds on good food, good work, and a good attitude. The > odds that insurance backed medicine is going to correct something are far worse > than the odds that you could prevent it to begin with.> > At our ages health insurance would cost four times it otherwise takes us to > live. Why mirthlessly enslave oneself to such a system? Better, says I, to > live well while one can than to live half-assed because of a fear of something > going wrong.> > James </HTML>> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:56:54 -0400> From: clhw at infoave.net (clhw)> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <v02130504c41ee10917c1@[64.53.36.12]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > Well I can name you 2 hospitals and 3 doctor's offices where it is true> right now. I did not know this was the case until just recently.> > >> Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% reduction in charges to people who> >> carry no insurance. Why?> >>> >I don't know of a place where that is true. People who don't have> >insurance are billed at a higher rate -- often substantially higher --> >than people who are covered by insurance companies that have worked> >out payment schedules with providers.> >> >Marie> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:56:56 -0400> From: clhw at infoave.net (clhw)> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <v02130505c41ee147263f@[64.53.36.12]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > The local hospital to my county has instituted a 30% discount for anyone> who pays the entire bill of a procedure, like a lab blood work, before it> is done. It also discounts the amount which must be paid if it is paid> within 30 days.> > All the doctors who are affiliated under the hospital system (not all those> who can admit to the hospital) also give 20 or 30% discount for bills paid> immediately upon the visit.> > The hospital in the next county over, which is a larger regional hospital,> gives a 7% discount for all bills paid immediately. Larger percentages are> given for people with no insurance, upon negotiation.> > One doctor's office, registered with the regional hospital, but not> sporting their name on its bills discounts as much as 50% on negotiation.> > It is rare for a hospital (or doctor) to see money from an insurance> company in less than 90 days and they have to pay someone to do the filing> papers to get it then. So, it's like a gas station which has a lower price> for cash payment. Also, they know that people who are strapped to pay a> bill may just give up if not allowed some more reasonable amount to pay.> > >Actually, the reverse is true. Non-insurance patients are charged the> >*standard* rates. Insurance companies negotiate a rate which is lower than> >the standard.> >> >Hospitals *rarely* discount for cash and it has to be cash up front.> >*Some,* again *rare* doctors will discount for cash up front.> >> >*Sometimes,* again, not the rule but rather the exception, you can negotiate> >the insurance rate on a bill with a hospital but usually only if you pay> >within a very stort period of time.> >> >Lynda> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 7> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:35:50 -0500> From: Gene GeRue <genegerue at ruralize.com>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <4AC5EDFF-E278-4E89-AA58-646EF05489B5 at ruralize.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes> > > On Apr 6, 2008, at 3:56 PM, clhw wrote:> > > The local hospital to my county has instituted a 30% discount for > > anyone> > who pays the entire bill of a procedure, like . . . .> > This caused something to come to mind. When I last got new lenses for > my glasses a few months ago the optometrist at Lenscrafters said I had > a slight infection in one eye. He started to fill out a prescription > for medicine to cure it. I don't recall what triggered it, but I > mentioned that I carry no health insurance. He immediately tore up the > prescription. He said keep calling my receptionist and ask if the > medicine samples have been dropped off by the pharma company > salesperson. I did that and within the week I had a free sample.> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 8> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:38:37 -0500> From: Gene GeRue <genegerue at ruralize.com>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <B799FCBA-D28B-4D67-9808-347CBBEF9780 at ruralize.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes> > > On Apr 6, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Clansgian at wmconnect.com wrote:> > > At our ages health insurance would cost four times it otherwise > > takes us to> > live. Why mirthlessly enslave oneself to such a system? Better, > > says I, to> > live well while one can than to live half-assed because of a fear of > > something> > going wrong.> > And there it is, my philosophy well expressed. As I have noted, I do > not pay for disease insurance; I use the money I might otherwise give > to an insurance company to obtain the best quality food I can find. I > eat very well. Good beer, too.> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 9> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:50:41 -0400> From: SJC <indexer at localnet.com>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <47F945B1.8020909 at localnet.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > Certainly here (Maine)the uninsured pay more. Son injured his hand a > while back and when I questioned parts of the surgery bill for repair of > injury, I was told outright in many cases that "if you had insurance, it > would only have been" X$.> > Since many insurance laws are state-controlled, I'd guess this is one of > the things that falls under, but here it's a dismal picture. Not that > it drove me to get insurance....it didn't> > I've had more than my share of experience with insurers, and as a group, > they are not folks for whom I Cherish a Great Admiration. Disgusting > creatures.> > Susan Jane, in Maine> > Marie McHarry wrote:> >> Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% reduction in charges to people who> >> carry no insurance. Why?> >>> >> > > I don't know of a place where that is true. People who don't have> > insurance are billed at a higher rate -- often substantially higher --> > than people who are covered by insurance companies that have worked> > out payment schedules with providers.> >> > Marie> >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 10> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:47:57 EDT> From: Clansgian at wmconnect.com> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <bbe.266a34dc.352ac93d at wmconnect.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"> > > > > I use the money I might otherwise give > > to an insurance company to obtain the best quality food I can find. I > > eat very well. Good beer, too.> > > > It would amaze those who have not tried it just how much better (healthier) > food one can afford for the price of an insurance premium. > > I base this following partially on a conversation with a physicial (general). > My suspicion is that most doctors know very well that exercise, weight loss, > and above all (or contributing to it all) a very healthy diet would correct > 97% of what they treat with chemicals. But they know just as well that people > aren't going to do it. It's a choice of unpleasantly lecturing about > destructive lifestyle to absolutely no end, or give them the pills and be done with > it.> > A short while back I took all the children for dental checkups (with no > dental work needed!). The dentist knows very well it costs us deep in the purse to > just have proper exams for them all and so he adjusts his bill accordingly. > It is still monstrously expensive. I accompanied the youngest through the > routine (he had the prophylactic sealants for his molars, great invention, that) > and another boy about his age was in the next chair with something like eleven > cavities.> > The dentist lectured the mother on giving the boy soda and too much fruit > juice. Seems children walk around with those pouches and boxes and swill their > mouths the fruit juice with hours on end. The mother said she'd try to watch > it.> > The dentist squared off toward her and said, "Try?? If you don't buy it, he > can't drink it!!"> > But it must be no end of frustration. Modren medicine is based, so says I, > on us having thrown in the towel on healthy living and just dealing with and > managing what's left. </HTML>> > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Homestead list and subscription:> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead> Change your homestead list member options:> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/homestead> View the archives at:> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/homestead> > > End of Homestead Digest, Vol 45, Issue 15> *****************************************
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